Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
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Nightpaws
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Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Nightpaws » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:06 am

In a new game, what's the consensus on moves that give the player invulnerability? Some games allow these means to be exploited which ruins the fun a bit but Banjo Kazooie pulled it off pretty well with Wonderwing (provided you didn't cheat and use the unlimited code :P ).

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Is there still a place for features like Wonderwing, or with games now being easier to control, and less fiddly, should invincibility be left in the Mario Kart powerup pile?

(Seeing as it's nice hearing these themes again: Wonderwing theme)
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Taylor
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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Taylor » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:13 am

Personally, I don't think I ever used Wonderwing in Kazooie. I mean, I used to even run through those propellers in Clanker's Cavern without it... (mostly because I was young and didn't know what to do!)

I wouldn't miss this move if it didn't show up.
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Nightpaws
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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Nightpaws » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:18 am

Taylor wrote:Personally, I don't think I ever used Wonderwing in Kazooie. I mean, I used to even run through those propellers in Clanker's Cavern without it... (mostly because I was young and didn't know what to do!)

I wouldn't miss this move if it didn't show up.


Personally I loved the tune, and I think it's a handy ability for newbies and younger players to stop latter parts of the game becoming too difficult. Whether it's needed now though with games being easier simply down to being able to see clearer and having more responsive controls, I'm not so sure... :?
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Enrel
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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Enrel » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:06 am

Eh I always think a super star or whatever equivalent is always a nice thing in a platformer. Is it needed? No of-course not, but it also gives you that boost of speed and the ability to not give a damn about anything for a brief few seconds making you feel like superman.

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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Viellain » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:16 am

To me it seems more like a rapid attack that's only used when there's so much attacking needed to be involved.

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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Prof__Yogert » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:34 am

Nightpaws wrote:In a new game, what's the consensus on moves that give the player invulnerability? Some games allow these means to be exploited which ruins the fun a bit but Banjo Kazooie pulled it off pretty well with Wonderwing (provided you didn't cheat and use the unlimited code :P ).


wow i never thought about this, but i dont think i once used wonderwing, thats so weird, but i wouldnt say it wasnt relevent, i think if they have a need for it, add away.
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Chruxl
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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Chruxl » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:11 am

The need for invulnerability is mostly reliant on the level design on Ukelele. I could see it being a thing if some of the mechanics lean towards it. I also liked being able to say "screw you" to the Mum-Mum, Tee-hee, and Limbos. Again, areas of the game could be easier but not vital, like the poison gas almost requiring Metal Mario, or the fan blades almost requiring Wonderwing. It mostly depends on level and enemy design, so we'll see!

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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Lizard64 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:31 am

I agree with everyone here.

In this day and age with infinite continues and checkpoints every two minutes, invulnerability items have kinda lost their purpose. They might be useful in combat-heavy areas and no-death runs, other than that.. who knows? We know nothing of how the game will design failure states. As long as its justified and the scarcity and challenge of collecting them is apparent, I bet invulnerability items (or the like) will be fun and rewarding to use.

(Just like in Banjo Kazooie :D )

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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby dotEXE » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:19 pm

I think it's totally still relevant. If you had infinite health in this game that'd be pretty disappointing. Infinite lives, sure, cool. But there need to be failure states.

If anything, they should design the levels to make it a bit MORE relevant. And with the updated tech I'm sure they can now. Like has been said, you can run through the blades in Clanker's Cavern without using Wonderwing. Just, ya know, design places now where you can't do that. Solved.
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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Taylor » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:38 pm

dotEXE wrote:If you had infinite health in this game that'd be pretty disappointing.


A little off-topic, but I agree with this. I didn't like Nuts & Bolts' health bar -- not the design, or the way you can never actually die (what's the point of the health bar?). I want to see a return of the old-style, expandable 'honey' pieces.

And death. :twisted:
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Re: Invulnerability? Is it still relevant?

Postby Nightpaws » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:57 pm

Taylor wrote:
dotEXE wrote:If you had infinite health in this game that'd be pretty disappointing.


A little off-topic, but I agree with this. I didn't like Nuts & Bolts' health bar -- not the design, or the way you can never actually die (what's the point of the health bar?). I want to see a return of the old-style, expandable 'honey' pieces.

And death. :twisted:

Keeping anything that allows invulnerability hard to attain was something Rare used to be very good at. Gold feathers in the first game were usually pretty hard to obtain until later, and even then you could only have 10. The honeycomb system (without replenishing) added to the tension when you were playing too. :)
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