Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
MattUmby
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Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby MattUmby » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:37 pm

Hello all! This is my first post on the forums, though I've been reading them since last year when the Kickstarter was in full swing.

So, today, on the Playtonic twitter, they announced that they were planning for five worlds in Yooka Laylee. (The tweet can be found here: https://twitter.com/PlaytonicGames/stat ... 1769700352).

I do have a concern, however. Now, do bear in mind, I'm no game developer, but I know just how much hard work is put into games. I'm not gonna ask for miracles, here!

Playtonic have said they believe Yooka Laylee will be bigger than Banjo Kazooie was. I have no doubt in my mind about this, what with the multiplayer modes, bosses on each stage, and expandable levels, but I also worry. The levels expand, but we have no idea what that truly entails, or how worlds will expand. What I worry about is that the levels will either be:

- Too small from the outset, and feel too enclosed/restrictive by not letting players explore, or

- Be too BIG, and overwhelm the player such as the stages in Tooie, which were much larger, full of busywork and backtracking, and tended to fatigue players (looking at you, Grunty Industries.)

I also feel as though (and this is admittedly just an over-eager fan being over-eager, I'm aware) five worlds isn't enough. god that sounds selfish
Now, I do know that Playtonic owes us nothing, except a game. And I have no doubt in my mind that every world in the game will be well designed, fun to explore, and beautiful. But I suppose I just thought there'd be more? I had sort of imagined there'd be more than five worlds when they said "bigger than Banjo-Kazooie" (and the fact that the Kickstarter itself mentions more than five worlds) but I suppose that's what the DLC is for. It was most likely just miscommunication or a misunderstanding on my part.

I hope I haven't come across as selfish or demanding. I have plenty of faith in Playtonic to create an incredible, huge game, and I look forward to playing it when it releases!

What are your thoughts on the number of worlds, and their expandability?

smashbro596
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby smashbro596 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:05 am

perhaps they're starting with 5 planned and adding more as the project goes on?

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TrenteR
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby TrenteR » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:49 am

Can it be that you don't followed the Kickstarter?

I know, 5 levels seems not enough, but there is a catch.

- Every world can be expanded with Pagies.
Like you can explore more and are able to revisit worlds.

How exactly it will turn out?
I'm not 100% sure, but this game will take enough time on the first playthrough.
Anyway this game isn't the scope of a Triple A $60Game.
It's actually more like a $30Game Scope and I hope you remind that.

This is their first game as "Playtonic Games", so don't expect a 70hours Collectathon.

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Omega
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Omega » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:13 am

I think 5 worlds is just fine. Sure more would be great but 5 is not bad for a start. I think and hope the size of the worlds are bigger than "Kazooie" but smaller than "Tooie".

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Exaskryz
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Exaskryz » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:00 am

I'm just hoping that they never planned for more than five worlds, cause that could mean content being cut as a means to get the game out before the end of the year.
Aiaiaiiii, we're 8 months past the deadline for the game, and still no word on it coming out.

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Taylor
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Taylor » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:10 am

Hey, welcome to the forums. :)

I asked Gavin from Playtonic about this last year. I said I was concerned there would be too much backtracking, and I also questioned if the expandable worlds will be similar to Mario 64 style chapters/missions, which I did not want. This was his response.

Gavtonic wrote:You can go in to the first world, collect all the pagies you can in that go and then leave for the next world OR unlock extra areas in the current world and continue mining it for more pagies before then leaving for the second world and so on! There will be some content in each world to come back to when you have unlocked more new moves (like in Banjo Tooie), but I promise we'll make it worth your while. We're 100% NOT doing Mario 64/Galaxy style missions. But we're now giving players more choice - go straight through to complete the game and then come back to mop up extra collectibles or take your time and open up more worlds to explore as you go, or somehwere in between those styles - it's up to you!


Hope that relieves some of your concerns!
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John
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby John » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:55 am

The kickstarter mentioned "more than 5 distinct worlds." I'm expecting there to be a 6th bonus or miniworld at the end.
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Rueckkoppler
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Rueckkoppler » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:19 am

A good idea in another discussion about this was that the "expansions" to these world would have a slight different, yet somehow related theme. My idea for example would be that the expansion to the (likely) winter world would be a horror/Halloween theme. So that you walk through a winter forest that gets more horror-themed and eventually leads you to a mansion or a spooky village. I really hope it follows that logic. Then, I'd be totally fine with 5 worlds. It's more about the themes anyway and you'll get more of them if they do it this way.

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Xellos
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Xellos » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:00 pm

I wouldn't worry so much about that MattUmby. Here's what Gavin Price has to say on this issue when he was being questioned about it last year.

Gavin Price wrote:That's a secret Shawn... but there will probably be more by the end...


Source.
Last edited by Xellos on Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Omega
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Omega » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:10 pm

John wrote:The kickstarter mentioned "more than 5 distinct worlds." I'm expecting there to be a 6th bonus or miniworld at the end.


Maybe with "more than 5", they meant the Hub World. It would be like a "sixth world" where you can collect things too, like in Spiral Mountain in Gruntys Revenge. That would be nice :)

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Scrubber
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Scrubber » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:34 pm

Five isn't enough. You would get bored spending too much time in one world.
I don't want a DLC experience with yookalaylee. It's a spiritual successor to banjotooie i want a finished experience not an unfinished experience with more to come that i have to pay for.

Kazooie had what, eight worlds? So why would this only have five? Doesn't seem enough at all.

Alucard
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Alucard » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:04 pm

I think 5 worlds are too less in comparison with DK64, Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie or even Mario 64 (15 worlds).
I know the worlds in Mario 64 are not as much filled with characters, minigames and all those collectables as Banjo Kazooie but still, its a very small amount of worlds for Yooka-Laylee and if they just as giant as in Nuts & Bolts the game would be not fun. The worlds in Nuts & Bolts are too big and empty and also the design felt like it would not be a real world, only built up like a movie stage (you can even see those stupid cogs in the background) all felt like the characters where actors and banjo and kazooie are truman. I want real worlds like in Banjo-Kazooie where all those characters live. The best example is the move from the boggy family from freezezy peak to the hailfire peaks ice side or goby which was kidnapped on his way to the lava world (lava side of hailfire peaks) and ended up as a freak in witchyworld. All those events makes those worlds feel real. Anyway I really hope they do all right !

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Scrubber
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Scrubber » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:55 pm

Alucard wrote:I want real worlds like in Banjo-Kazooie where all those characters live. The best example is the move from the boggy family from freezezy peak to the hailfire peaks ice side or goby which was kidnapped on his way to the lava world (lava side of hailfire peaks) and ended up as a freak in witchyworld. All those events makes those worlds feel real. Anyway I really hope they do all right !

Yeah i really like little touches like this with continuity.

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BanjoThreeie
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby BanjoThreeie » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:25 pm

Five worlds is a bit disappointing, but I'll take what I can get. I just hope they aren't limiting the amount of worlds so they can get an October release date. I'd be more than willing to wait until next spring if it meant getting 1 or 2 more worlds.

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dotEXE
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby dotEXE » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:35 pm

I'm not worried up front because we know that every world will be expandable and we have NO idea what the worlds look like so far. Expanding worlds could potentially handle the "worlds are too small" and "worlds are too big" issues simultaneously. We also know the world sizes are targeted to be generally between the size of BK and BT.

I (having no knowledge of the current state of the game mind you) would expect that worlds start out fairly small and manageable, like the worlds in Banjo Kazooie. For example when you enter Mumbo's Mountain you can see almost the entire map from the start point, but the world isn't "too small" so as to be boring by any means.

Then, you can expand the level once you're familiar with it and have beaten its existing challenges. This could make the level not only larger, but also more diverse! This would fight the issues of worlds being too small, or themes getting stagnant. For example, we've seen the temple level (which I think is actually not in the final game, but will be a suitable example) and this could be expanded in lots of ways. You'd have the jungle and temple exterior, could expand into a temple zone inside, and maybe the temple goes SO far down that there's an expansion into a lava-themed area at the bottom. You could also put a cave in the jungle and expand into a cave-exploring section. Then the floating islands could expand and have an oasis at the top of one, or maybe they expand so high there's a Cloud Cuckooland up there.

Really, the five worlds thing isn't something I'm concerned about. I've got no worries on this topic. For numbers sake I wish there were 6, but that's an "even number of worlds" thing not a gameplay thing. Plus we get free DLC, so they could potentially add a new world that unlocks after you 100% the original game or something.
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Meinhard1
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Meinhard1 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:08 am

I would reiterate that we really don't know what a YL world even consists of. They are confirmed to be more substantial than a BK World; and I speculate more varied -- 'expanded' areas will likely have some novelty or allure to them.

Your concern about size is valid -- we don't want to feel constricted, or lost. It's worth noting that BK and BT were at the beginning of the 3D era and the devs have the benefit (and challenge) of hindsight and of developing inns time when 3D game development has matured. Playtonic knows they can't have the constricted feel of Galaxy, nor can they overwhelm the player like in Tooie, nor bore/fatigue them like in DK64.

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Yavga
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Yavga » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:22 am

Oh how difficult it is to release that what is known to us in anticipation of something that is eventually grander in scope altogether, with less emphasis on quantity but more on quality.

It's just like the collectibles ^^
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lavamario
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby lavamario » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:34 am

I don't doubt that the total playtime won't come to match or surpass previous entries, but my concern is in the variety of worlds at play. If, like someone said, the world expansion doesn't all stick with one environment the whole way through, I could be cool with just 5 overall themes. I'm just worried that isn't the case, and a desert world may simply lead to more desert.

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Meinhard1
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby Meinhard1 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:54 am

I *think* D.Wise let slip that "Jungle Challenge" was for the games beach area. This got me thinking that Jungle and Beach themes can coexist in a level and, further, a beach could have a pirate ship, etc ... pure speculation, there.

I'm not without concerns. Doesn't 5 worlds mean a smaller Hub? Obviously size isn't the only standard by which a Hubs quality is gauged but, say, decreasing Banjos level count to 5 would likely have affected Gruntildas Lair negatively.

Upcoming reveals may give us more substance to discuss here!

sweeneyrya
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Re: Five worlds for Yooka-Laylee, and my concern about them

Postby sweeneyrya » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:03 am

What if the Desert World may include a huge Oasis area, aswell?


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