Making the Switch

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!

How does the Wii U version's Cancellation affect you?

Happy
11
19%
Disappointed
11
19%
Angry
6
11%
Doesn't affect me/Pledged for non-Nintendo version/Was gonna get a Nintendo Switch anyway
29
51%
 
Total votes: 57

Piet
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:17 pm

Yavga wrote:
Piet wrote:
Yavga wrote:... But let's be fair. Is there ANY company that has a track record of 100% holiness? It's a business in the end. And businesses sometimes have to be ruthless to survive. It's up to the big boss... Capital B

I know what you mean, but I'm still disappointed that PT is just like any other company...


We don't have a reason yet, don't assume yet :P Let's play the waiting game. Give them some time to answer.

Okay, let's do that. :)
Waiting...

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dotEXE
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby dotEXE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:32 pm

What's there to wait for? The WiiU is a dead console with a Dorito for a graphics chip. The YouTube vids of YL all chug, and those are on more powerful systems. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the WiiU couldn't handle 15FPS in that HUGE Tribalstack Tropics scene.
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Meinhard1
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Meinhard1 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:34 pm

Technical issues causing delay or cancellation certainly do happen. What is incredibly unfortunate when this sort of thing happens with a Kickstarter project where so many of the core fans/backers are impacted.

It's perfectly human to feel a sense of anger or of having been "lied to" but directing that at Playtonic isn't quite fair to them.

Really, it's remarkable that we have such a nice-looking, multi-featured game arriving on most of the promised platforms and really not *too* far from the initial release date. This is a pretty small sized dev team, too.

Anyways, I'll definitely be getting this for the Switch.

WyvernWings
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby WyvernWings » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:34 pm

I don't know if explaining what technical difficulties they faced is a good idea. It can either make things better, worse or probably even both. Game developers don't usually talk about stuff from the technical side of things, unless not after years of the game being released.

The Wii U being underpowered, which was obvious from the start, should be explanation enough.
Playtonic thought they could implement all of their ideas for the Wii U, before deciding to drop support for it, because they found out midway through development that it is a potato and on its way out. By skipping Wii U, they can realise its ideas without that system holding it back and making all the other versions suffer because of it.

Developing a game is very unpredictable. Anything can change without warning over 2 years. You never know until you try.
That's the harsh truth about game development. I've studied it enough to know that.
Last edited by WyvernWings on Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Yavga
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Yavga » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:35 pm

dotEXE wrote:What's there to wait for? The WiiU is a dead console with a Dorito for a graphics chip. The YouTube vids of YL all chug, and those are on more powerful systems. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the WiiU couldn't handle 15FPS in that HUGE Tribalstack Tropics scene.


... seems to be the most obvious explanation by 99% certainity.

But let's just give the people who still have doubts a chance at some insight as to what technical problems could exist anyway. If they hear it from one of the devs in an interview or something I'm sure they understand. They just want to hear:

"We had 10FPS from the start but had hoped to increase that number"

To be fair... what's the harm of knowing right? Everyone happy. Everyone still playing Yooka Laylee in the end.

Look... we don't care but others do. Try to understand their worries as well. That's why I'm sure Playtonic will answer anyway. But not right now.
Stop picking your nose Image

Piet
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:57 pm

dotEXE wrote:What's there to wait for? The WiiU is a dead console with a Dorito for a graphics chip. The YouTube vids of YL all chug, and those are on more powerful systems. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the WiiU couldn't handle 15FPS in that HUGE Tribalstack Tropics scene.

Then they should've never announced the game for the Wii U in first place. It's their fault!
+ 15fps? If you REALLY think that, then you have absolutely no knowledge of technology.

Meinhard1 wrote:Technical issues causing delay or cancellation certainly do happen. What is incredibly unfortunate when this sort of thing happens with a Kickstarter project where so many of the core fans/backers are impacted.
It's perfectly human to feel a sense of anger or of having been "lied to" but directing that at Playtonic isn't quite fair to them.
Really, it's remarkable that we have such a nice-looking, multi-featured game arriving on most of the promised platforms and really not *too* far from the initial release date. This is a pretty small sized dev team, too.
Anyways, I'll definitely be getting this for the Switch.

Still REALLY dissapointing. I'm a first-day backer and it is absolutely absurd if I can't play it day 1, due to faulty communication and decisions!
Also I'm a fan from the first hour, so that's another reason to be dissapointed.
+ What about first-day backers/people who only have a Wii U and who can't afford another console/PC?
There is absolutely NO SOLUTION for them... Like... AT ALL.

WyvernWings wrote:I don't know if explaining what technical difficulties they faced is a good idea. It can either make things better, worse or probably even both. Game developers don't usually talk about stuff from the technical side of things, unless not after years of the game being released.
The Wii U being underpowered, which was obvious from the start, should be explanation enough.
Playtonic thought they could implement all of their ideas for the Wii U, before deciding to drop support for it, because they found out midway through development that it is a potato and on its way out. By skipping Wii U, they can realise its ideas without that system holding it back and making all the other versions suffer because of it.
Developing a game is very unpredictable. Anything can change without warning over 2 years. You never know until you try.
That's the harsh truth about game development. I've studied it enough to know that.

Not entirely true. If they kept us up-to-date about the Wii U game development problems, then we could've see this coming. Now it's just like a bomb exploding out of nowhere.
Again; Bad communication.
+ More info would calm down the irritated people (including me). ;)

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dotEXE
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby dotEXE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:08 pm

Angry Piet wrote:Then they should've never announced the game foor the Wii U. It's their fault!
+ 15fps? If you REALLY think that, then you have absolutely no knowledge of technology.


I mean, I have a masters in computer science, have a career as a senior software engineer, have built more desktops than you can count on your fingers and toes, have soldered together a working gameboy from assorted circuit boards, and have developed my own indie games. But sure, if it makes you feel better you can believe I "don't know anything" about technology.

The WiiU is dramatically underpowered compared to even the Xbox ONE. Which is weaker than the PS4, which is of course weaker than any hobbyist's PC. Go watch any of the videos where they climb to the top of Tribalstack Tropics and pan to show the ENTIRE level in one shot. The videos all skip and chug. That's just plain old level 1. That big zoom scene has a huge draw distance, tons of particles, millions of polygons, hundreds of items, and dozens of creatures - all of it moving independently and all requiring static and dynamic lighting - rendered all at once.

The issue is either A) The WiiU can't hang because, while it has some specialized routines to allow it to punch above its level these routines cannot be utilized in a multiplat Unity release OR B) Nintendo is specifically restricting developers from releasing for WiiU anymore. I'm going to go with the Occam's Razor answer of A.

Then they should've never announced the game foor the Wii U. It's their fault!


I can guarantee you there was no way of knowing this would happen almost two years ago. NOT announcing it for WiiU would have been just as much of a mistake. Look at Mario 3D World. It has similar visual fidelity to Yooka Laylee, though with much smaller worlds. BUT it's only 1 systems. It can use the tricky routines Nintendo has added that allow the console to pull more weight than it's pure stats would allow.

Yooka Laylee, if I had to guess, doesn't have that luxury.

Due to faulty ... decisions


Releasing a game on WiiU that can't maintain 15 FPS would be the faulty decision. After a certain point you can't code around bad hardware. There are only so many metaphorical bandages, crutches, and wheel chairs to go around. Eventually it's obvious the game is paralyzed by the hardware.

TLDR; quit your crying
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Piet
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:25 pm

dotEXE wrote:I mean, I have a masters in computer science, have a career as a senior software engineer, have built more desktops than you can count on your fingers and toes, have soldered together a working gameboy from assorted circuit boards, and have developed my own indie games. But sure, if it makes you feel better you can believe I "don't know anything" about technology.

The WiiU is dramatically underpowered compared to even the Xbox ONE. Which is weaker than the PS4, which is of course weaker than any hobbyist's PC. Go watch any of the videos where they climb to the top of Tribalstack Tropics and pan to show the ENTIRE level in one shot. The videos all skip and chug. That's just plain old level 1. That big zoom scene has a huge draw distance, tons of particles, millions of polygons, hundreds of items, and dozens of creatures - all of it moving independently and all requiring static and dynamic lighting - rendered all at once.

The issue is either A) The WiiU can't hang because, while it has some specialized routines to allow it to punch above its level these routines cannot be utilized in a multiplat Unity release OR B) Nintendo is specifically restricting developers from releasing for WiiU anymore. I'm going to go with the Occam's Razor answer of A.

----------

I can guarantee you there was no way of knowing this would happen almost two years ago. NOT announcing it for WiiU would have been just as much of a mistake. Look at Mario 3D World. It has similar visual fidelity to Yooka Laylee, though with much smaller worlds. BUT it's only 1 systems. It can use the tricky routines Nintendo has added that allow the console to pull more weight than it's pure stats would allow.

Yooka Laylee, if I had to guess, doesn't have that luxury.

----------

Releasing a game on WiiU that can't maintain 15 FPS would be the faulty decision. After a certain point you can't code around bad hardware. There are only so many metaphorical bandages, crutches, and wheel chairs to go around. Eventually it's obvious the game is paralyzed by the hardware.

TLDR; quit your crying



You defending them like this is just pathetic.
Bad communication: FACT.
Sh*tty decisions: FACT.
Still no good excuses: FACT.

How can you not SEE that. Take of your PT glasses. ;)

Oh and don't get me wrong I follow them since the NES/Rare (Snake Rattle 'N Roll, etc.) era and I've always loved their games. BK & BT are in my top 5 best games ever made, but I'm just really dissapointed by the way they handled this!

Again; Take of your pink PT glasses.
Last edited by Piet on Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Exaskryz
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Exaskryz » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:27 pm

dotEXE wrote:
Releasing a game on WiiU that can't maintain 15 FPS would be the faulty decision. After a certain point you can't code around bad hardware. There are only so many metaphorical bandages, crutches, and wheel chairs to go around. Eventually it's obvious the game is paralyzed by the hardware.



Some of these same devs got around the N64 limitations just fine

dotEXE wrote:TLDR; quit your crying


Buy me a PS4 please
Woaaaah, it finally came out! :o

Piet
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:29 pm

Exaskryz wrote:
dotEXE wrote:
Releasing a game on WiiU that can't maintain 15 FPS would be the faulty decision. After a certain point you can't code around bad hardware. There are only so many metaphorical bandages, crutches, and wheel chairs to go around. Eventually it's obvious the game is paralyzed by the hardware.



Some of these same devs got around the N64 limitations just fine

dotEXE wrote:TLDR; quit your crying


Buy me a PS4 please

Bwhahaha! What @Exaskryz says!
Instead get me an X1, PLEASE! ;)
Last edited by Piet on Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dotEXE
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby dotEXE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:30 pm

Take [off] your PT glasses.


WiiU is a weak console: OBJECTIVELY A FACT.

You have never released a commercial indie game: FACT.

You have no information about their internal decision-making process at Playtonic: FACT.

Playtonic was forced to make an undesireable decision after months of attempting to find a workaround for a lamentably underpowered console that the original manufacturer is already killing off: FACT.

You have turned into a whiny man-baby because you didn't get your way: FACT.

I mean do you frikkin seriously believe this is the way Playtonic WANTED this to go? Do you SERIOUSLY believe they didn't try absolutely everything in their power to avoid this outcome? You would have to be so incredibly dense that I am beginning to worry the universe may collapse into itself with you at the epicenter.

Edit: punctuation now more accurately parrots the source
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:34 pm

dotEXE wrote:
Take [off] your PT glasses.


WiiU is a weak console: OBJECTIVELY A FACT

You have never released a commercial indie game: FACT

You have no information about their internal decision-making process at Playtonic: FACT

Playtonis was forced to make an undesireable decision after months of attempting to find a workaround for a lamentably underpowered console that the original manufacturer is already killing off: FACT

You have turned into a whiny man-baby because you didn't get your way: FACT

I mean do you frikkin seriously believe this is the way Playtonic WANTED this to go? Do you SERIOUSLY believe they didn't try absolutely everything in their power to avoid this outcome? You would have to be so incredibly dense that I am beginning to worry the universe may collapse into itself with you at the epicenter.


- It is weaker than other consoles, but if they can't release on it; DON'T ANNOUNCE IT! RE-SEARCH!!!
- I never released a game. Still doesn't change the fact about the shitty decisions & shitty communication.
- THEN THEY NEVER SHOULD'VE ANNOUNCED IT FOR WII U!
- I get lied to; I whine; GODD*MNIT YES!

Of course I know they never wanted this, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel f*cked in the 3D-Open-World ass!
Last edited by Piet on Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Exaskryz
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Exaskryz » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:36 pm

dotEXE wrote:
Take [off] your PT glasses.


WiiU is a weak console: OBJECTIVELY A FACT.

You have never released a commercial indie game: FACT.

You have no information about their internal decision-making process at Playtonic: FACT.

Playtonic was forced to make an undesireable decision after months of attempting to find a workaround for a lamentably underpowered console that the original manufacturer is already killing off: FACT.

You have turned into a whiny man-baby because you didn't get your way: FACT.

I mean do you frikkin seriously believe this is the way Playtonic WANTED this to go? Do you SERIOUSLY believe they didn't try absolutely everything in their power to avoid this outcome? You would have to be so incredibly dense that I am beginning to worry the universe may collapse into itself with you at the epicenter.

Edit: punctuation now more accurately parrots the source


And Games Still Run On the Wii U: FACT.

Yooka Laylee is more than capable of running on Wii U: FACT (else they'd never have built for it)

It's just that it runs in a different way than the other platforms: FACT
Woaaaah, it finally came out! :o

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dotEXE
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby dotEXE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:38 pm

RE-SEARCH [sic]


You don't GET IT. These are issues you CAN NOT KNOW ABOUT UNTIL THEY HAPPEN.
You CAN NOT research something when you are LEADING the pack. They ARE the research.

I'd wager a guess that they could take all of the foliage, lighting, art, backgrounds, and half of the NPCs and monsters out of the WiiU version and still release it, but that's not really the same game now is it?

Yooka Laylee is more than capable of running on Wii U


NOT FACT. They JUST specifically told us this. The game. Does not run. On WiiU. Playtonic Games LITERALLY just said this and that is WHY this thread exists.

I need a flippin drink. This is astounding. Nice new signature, too. The era of crybabies.

RIP Forums, this is quickly going to devolve into a cry-hole.
Last edited by dotEXE on Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Piet
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:38 pm

Exaskryz wrote:And Games Still Run On the Wii U: FACT.
Yooka Laylee is more than capable of running on Wii U: FACT (else they'd never have built for it)
It's just that it runs in a different way than the other platforms: FACT

Also; THIS!

WyvernWings
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby WyvernWings » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:41 pm

Piet wrote:
dotEXE wrote:
Take [off] your PT glasses.


WiiU is a weak console: OBJECTIVELY A FACT

You have never released a commercial indie game: FACT

You have no information about their internal decision-making process at Playtonic: FACT

Playtonis was forced to make an undesireable decision after months of attempting to find a workaround for a lamentably underpowered console that the original manufacturer is already killing off: FACT

You have turned into a whiny man-baby because you didn't get your way: FACT

I mean do you frikkin seriously believe this is the way Playtonic WANTED this to go? Do you SERIOUSLY believe they didn't try absolutely everything in their power to avoid this outcome? You would have to be so incredibly dense that I am beginning to worry the universe may collapse into itself with you at the epicenter.


- It is weaker than other consoles, but if they can't release on it; DON'T ANNOUNCE IT! RE-SEARCH!!!
- I never released a game. Still doesn't change the fact about the shitty decisions & shitty communication.
- THEN THEY NEVER SHOULD'VE ANNOUNCED IT FOR WII U!
- I get lied to; I whine; GODD*MNIT YES!

Of course I know they never wanted this, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel f*cked in the 3D-Open-World ass!


http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8682606

Piet
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Piet » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:43 pm

dotEXE wrote:
RE-SEARCH [sic]


You don't GET IT. These are issues you CAN NOT KNOW ABOUT UNTIL THEY HAPPEN.
You CAN NOT research something when you are LEADING the pack. They ARE the research.

I'd wager a guess that they could take all of the foliage, lighting, art, backgrounds, and half of the NPCs and monsters out of the WiiU version and still release it, but that's not really the same game now is it?

Yooka Laylee is more than capable of running on Wii U


NOT FACT. They JUST specifically told us this. The game. Does not run. On WiiU. Playtonic Games LITERALLY just said this and that is WHY this thread exists.

I need a $@#%ing drink. This is astounding.

Why would they only tell us NOW that it can't run on Wii U if they are this far in development!?
Something with not enough RESEARCH & BAD COMMUNICATION!!!
+ I don't buy the whole 'can't run' bullcrap anyway, 'cause they could've told us WAY earlier (as I said before).

TAKE.OFF.GLASSES.

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dotEXE
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby dotEXE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:45 pm

I can agree they probably knew about the issue a while ago and probably should have told you sooner, but that doesn't fix the fact the WiiU is weak and can't run the game.

Know what else doesn't fix anything? Crying about it.
Make the forum great again.

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Exaskryz
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby Exaskryz » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:48 pm

Imagine if the game were a Switch exclusive. PS4/ONE/PC/Mac owners would feel ripped off. Now you can kind of feel how Wii U owners feel.

All that would be nice is not being told that our feelings are wrong and we should just be thankful we got the opportunity to give away money to a company just to get nothing in return.
Woaaaah, it finally came out! :o

WyvernWings
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Re: Making the Switch

Postby WyvernWings » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:49 pm

Piet wrote:.

Time for some fresh air, Piet. Tapping your keyboard all day ain't makin' you feel any better.
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