Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
Langilol
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Re: Tooka-Laylee

Postby Langilol » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:11 pm

PandaLover wrote:Yooka Laylee is alot more like Banjo Tooie than Banjo Kazooie.

Yooka and Tooie both have:
Large levels
lots of back tracking
bosses
lots of moves

Banjo Kazooie does not have these things. I think the biggest problem with this game is that it is basically a remake of Banjo Tooie, not Banjo Kazooie which is what people wanted. Tooie is widely considered to be the worst of the two games.


It isnt like Banjo Tooie though ... more like a mix of both .. Isle O hags was a much better Hubworld than Grunty's Lair . Banjo Tooie does have backtracking. HOWEVER. Its a lot better executed since the worlds are literally connected to each other thanks to secret passages and Chuffy's rail system, making backtracking less backtracking but more exploration from a new perspective, whereas Yooka Laylee is literally banjo-kazooie, with banjo tooie sized worlds, however lacking the well implemented backtracking/exploration system from Tooie, which made it so tedious to walk back to Worlds.

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BanjoThreeie
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Re: Tooka-Laylee

Postby BanjoThreeie » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:28 pm

PandaLover wrote:Tooie is widely considered to be the worst of the two games.


Where did you get that idea? I mean, I guess its Metacritic score is a bit below Kazooie's, but if you ever poll fans of the series, Tooie usually wins, or at least comes very close.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4227

https://www.gamnesia.com/polls/game-cla ... anjo-tooie

http://www.strawpoll.me/11792212/r

So it's not really correct to say it's "widely considered" to be the worse of the two games.

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dotEXE
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby dotEXE » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:19 pm

Tooie is by far the better game. It's everything BK is and then more. It's more or less "Big, Interconnected BK".

I really like YL but after reading this thread realize they could have done a bit more with the story aspects. The worlds, while they have themes, have no overarching story whatsoever. The pigs looked like they thought about it but it didn't fit in. It doesn't lower my enjoyment of the game, but I would agree that it was a missed opportunity to have a story arch within each book.
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Pgcrooner
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Suggestions for the Sequel (potential spoilers)

Postby Pgcrooner » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:10 am

So I just got done playing Yooka-Laylee and it was a very enjoyable experience for me personally. I'm hoping this game gets enough sales and praise from fans to warrant a sequel, despite the critical reception from game journos.

That being said, I started this tread as a means for everyone who thinks of something they would like to see improved or added to the sequel to post their thoughts. So I have a few suggestions for improvements for the sequel.

1. More unique enemy variants in each world

Despite the really clever idea of giving the base corplet minions themed appearances for each world we essentially get the same enemies in every world:

-Corplet minion (themed)
-Corplet Drone
-Corplet enforcer (in some worlds)
-Goggly eyes
-jellyfish(the only aquatic enemy in the game)
-security bot

While that seems like a diverse cast of baddies, they don't have that same uniqueness that the B-K games had for every world. Mumbo's mountain had tickers and tribal grublins, treasure trove cove had the clams and crabs and snacker, mad monster mansion had bats, ghosts, walking skeletons, living gravestones and the list goes on. Unique themed enemies helps the world feel lived in and deepens the immersion.

2. More world themed NPCs

One of the things that kind of got under my skin with B-K nuts&bolts was that all of the NPCs that you help are reused in every level. Yooka-Laylee also suffers from this but only slightly in comparison. The knights of hamelot appear in 3 of the 5 worlds, clara in 3 of the 5 worlds, Rextro in 5 of the 5 worlds etc. In classic B-K you would not see repeats like this often. Yooka-Laylee does have NPC's that are unique to their worlds like clara in tribal stack, the snowmen in Glitter glaze, the trolleys in moodymaze etc. But it feels like B-K and B-T had more unique NPCs good and evil that(again)help each world felt lived in.

3. Vary up future Pagie challenges.

A lot of the challenges, while fun were somewhat repetitive. Particularly ones where you need to hit a switch and do thinks within the time limit. Or the jumping, flying, rolling through the hoops challenges. These were in B-K and B-T but not with this much frequency.

4. More worlds if possible

Pretty self explanatory, the expansion mechanic certainly adds to the games longevity and the replayablity of each world but I feel like 7+ worlds would be a good number to go on for the sequel.

5.(subjective on my part) add a little more distinction to your worlds.

Don't get me wrong the world's of Yooka-Laylee are beautiful, especially Glitter Glaze Glacier and Galleon Galaxy. But other than those two the other worlds, while great felt somewhat bland by comparison. Everything within those worlds looked too similar and made it easy for me to get lost and lose my bearings. The best comparison I have to this is how I felt about Terrydactyland and Glitter Gulch mine. There is too much of on color, the main landmarks can often blend in with too many things resembling each other which can get disorienting. I'm not sure how to fix this issue but there was something to me in the B-K and most of the B-T worlds that seems to be missing in the Y-L worlds. It wasn't too bad for me as I was able to 100% each world.

I'm sure there is more for me to talk about but I can't think of anything else at the moment. What suggestions/improvements would you guys recommend?

Spydr Webz
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Re: Suggestions for the Sequel (potential spoilers)

Postby Spydr Webz » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:37 am

Glad you enjoyed the game, as did I!

I agree whole-heartedly with your pints about character variation. One of the biggest problems with Yooka-Laylle in my opinion. I actually just did the math on this: Each Banjo-Kazooie world has anywhere from 2-5 unique enemies (with Mad Monster Mansion and Rusty Bucket Bay boasting the most), and it really switched things up and made each world feel like a totally new experience. Yooka-Laylle literally has ZERO world-exclusive enemies...

Same thing with the NPCs. We see the Knights of Hamalot, Clara, Planker, Shovel Knight and Nimble in multiple worlds. And for characters that are world exclusive, there are few. Typically, they are either bosses or over-used variations of the same boring character (The Flowers, the Snowmen, the Trolleys, the Slot Bandits, and the Blamphibians, although those last ones are somewhat excusable with their unique animations and such).

When it comes to character variation, the difference between the BK games and YL is HUGE. I hope Playtonic takes note of this for future games!

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Scrubber
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Re: Suggestions for the Sequel (potential spoilers)

Postby Scrubber » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:47 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5444

We already have a thread here.

Taylor could you merge these please.

Spydr Webz
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Re: Suggestions for the Sequel (potential spoilers)

Postby Spydr Webz » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:49 am

Also, I have a hunch on what was "missing" from Yooka-Laylee worlds that we got in the BK games: "sectioned" worlds.

In the games with bigger worlds like BT and DK64, the worlds main areas are divided into multiple areas or "sections" that are separated by tunnels, doorways, or some other kind of passage and each main area has a slightly different look and feel to it. Great examples of this are Witchyworld in BT, which had multiple "zones," like the Inferno, the Space Zone, or the Western Zone. Then Fungi Forest in DK64 had tunnels in the main area that lead to multiple other unique areas.

Yooka-Laylee's worlds are essentially giant single areas with little to no variation. A good exception is Galleon Galaxy, which splits all the main areas up with fly tubes.

FailureFactory
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby FailureFactory » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:06 pm

Here's an idea (edit: kinda expands on what Spydr Webz wrote):
Keep the fully expanded world at about the same size, but divide the levels into different themes, one of which becomes available from the start, while you need to expand it to get access to the others.

For example, consider Moody Maze Marsh:
The level starts out as a swamp, basically the way we know it, just smaller. When you expand it, you gain access to a grimy old factory standing in the swamp. Basically, it's a level in a level, but as both areas are connected, you can have the between-level interaction of Banjo-Tooie. And because the level parts are so different, you get more diversity throughout the game. Icymetric palace actually goes in this direction, but doesn't go far enough, theme-wise.

Also, I would allow for multiple expansions of the same world. To stick with the Moody Maze Marsh example, the second expansion could be something like a haunted castle. This way, the individual areas would become smaller than they currently are, making them easier to process for those of us who miss Banjo-Kazooie's worlds. At the same time, the game gains a ton of diversity. Having related themes in one expandable level instead of three also means you can skip the expansions if you don't like the connecting super-theme that much ("spooky" for our example).

To sum it up, the total level size stays about the same, with the inbetween-area interactions giving us something similar to Banjo-Tooie, smaller distinguishable areas to keep you from getting lost, and a lot more diversity.

Pgcrooner
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby Pgcrooner » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:32 pm

FailureFactory wrote:Here's an idea (edit: kinda expands on what Spydr Webz wrote):
Keep the fully expanded world at about the same size, but divide the levels into different themes, one of which becomes available from the start, while you need to expand it to get access to the others.

For example, consider Moody Maze Marsh:
The level starts out as a swamp, basically the way we know it, just smaller. When you expand it, you gain access to a grimy old factory standing in the swamp. Basically, it's a level in a level, but as both areas are connected, you can have the between-level interaction of Banjo-Tooie. And because the level parts are so different, you get more diversity throughout the game. Icymetric palace actually goes in this direction, but doesn't go far enough, theme-wise.


I agree with this sentiment a lot, it basically what I had in mind about level expansions. Another thing they can do for a pre expanded world to make it more obvious that an area needs expansion is to have the area thats not there have a faded outline to it.

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Y00kaz0013fanb0y
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby Y00kaz0013fanb0y » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:37 pm

I WANT TO SEE A Part of the Sequel where YOOKA and Laylee Split Up, and Get EXCLUSIVE Moves that they'd NEVER be able to do while they were Together, or have the MAIN Campaign be Multiplayer with 1 Player being Yooka, the Other Laylee, and can Team Up in a Similar way to DKCR, OR DKCTF Except with an Extra 3rd Dimension!!
I, For One, Welcome the highly anticipated return of the 3d Collect-athon Platformer Genre of Video Games and will continue to support Playtonic no matter what

Pgcrooner
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby Pgcrooner » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:58 am

A fun intro animation in the vein of the first Banjo-Kazooie would also be nice. :)

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Yavga
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby Yavga » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:56 am

- World building, some lore. Make
the levels interesting to explore (Like in
Tooie) Jolly Roger Lagoon was interesting.
- More indoor areas with their own theme and
and characters.
- Some more programmed level mechanics, Yooka
Laylee kept using the same techniques and
puzzles, in Kazooie and Tooie many puzzles
were part of a small story/lore.
- Better move coördination, the techniques in
Yooka Laylee felt thrown together. (Last
moves) and please ditch the flying move.
- secrets, that actually take "months to
discover" like you said with Yooka Laylee :p
Which doesn't mean add in some treasures that
have no function yet.
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Hopix
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby Hopix » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:55 pm

Anyone else actually want more collectibles?

I'm toying with the idea of having luminous green butterflies to restore energy. And also of having the berries as a collectible like eggs, instead of placed on plants around the world.

Pgcrooner
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby Pgcrooner » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:27 pm

Hopix wrote:Anyone else actually want more collectibles?

I'm toying with the idea of having luminous green butterflies to restore energy. And also of having the berries as a collectible like eggs, instead of placed on plants around the world.


I see where you are coming from! the berries could be the new eggs. Collect a number throughout the world and that number is your ammo count for the shots. and you can switch between berries like Kazooie switched egg animation. each switch changing Yooka's scale colors.

I wouldnt mind more secondary collectables in the worlds. It would help the world's feel less empty

NPChilla
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby NPChilla » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:32 pm

I'd like Playtonic to do something unrelated before doing another platformer - that way, they can use whatever experience/new characters from that new project in the second YL.

After that, I hope they have a thorough look at YL before starting on a sequel, to see what works and doesn't work.

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TheAnvil
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby TheAnvil » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:44 pm

I love Y-L (it'll likely be my Game of the year) but like anything else there is room for improvement in the sequel. Top ones for me are:

-Y-L to have more attack moves.
-A greater number of game worlds.
-Bring in pads for flight.
-Separation pads.
-Ditch expandable worlds, just give us the full sized worlds from the get-go. The original, smaller worlds just seem unnecessary tbh.
-A greater number of world-exclusive characters.
-Fewer returning characters in later worlds. I love it when the odd character will pop up in a later world, like Canary Mary, but I think Y/L went a bit overboard. The pigs didn't need to be in Capital Cashino for example.
-Interconnected worlds like Banjo-Tooie.
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PandaLover
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Re: Tooka-Laylee

Postby PandaLover » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:22 am

Langilol wrote:
PandaLover wrote:Yooka Laylee is alot more like Banjo Tooie than Banjo Kazooie.

Yooka and Tooie both have:
Large levels
lots of back tracking
bosses
lots of moves

Banjo Kazooie does not have these things. I think the biggest problem with this game is that it is basically a remake of Banjo Tooie, not Banjo Kazooie which is what people wanted. Tooie is widely considered to be the worst of the two games.


It isnt like Banjo Tooie though


I tend to aggree with this videos take on it in the start of the video, as do the other 2 million people who watched it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmUiVXW4R5E

BanjoThreeie wrote:
PandaLover wrote:Tooie is widely considered to be the worst of the two games.


Where did you get that idea?


Tooie has worse critic scores across the board, also has worse user reviews. Yes I am going by metacritic as that is where the major reviews are compiled. Also Tooie sold about half as many copies as BK did. There also seems to be a general consensus that Tooie has not aged well compared to BK. And again I agree with the criticism in the video.

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bigfanofoldrare
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Re: Tooka-Laylee

Postby bigfanofoldrare » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:41 am

PandaLover wrote:
Langilol wrote:
PandaLover wrote:Yooka Laylee is alot more like Banjo Tooie than Banjo Kazooie.

Yooka and Tooie both have:
Large levels
lots of back tracking
bosses
lots of moves

Banjo Kazooie does not have these things. I think the biggest problem with this game is that it is basically a remake of Banjo Tooie, not Banjo Kazooie which is what people wanted. Tooie is widely considered to be the worst of the two games.


It isnt like Banjo Tooie though


I tend to aggree with this videos take on it in the start of the video, as do the other 2 million people who watched it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmUiVXW4R5E

BanjoThreeie wrote:
PandaLover wrote:Tooie is widely considered to be the worst of the two games.


Where did you get that idea?


Tooie has worse critic scores across the board, also has worse user reviews. Yes I am going by metacritic as that is where the major reviews are compiled. Also Tooie sold about half as many copies as BK did. There also seems to be a general consensus that Tooie has not aged well compared to BK. And again I agree with the criticism in the video.


this video suck :(

banjo-kazooie and tooie were better.. but yooka-laylee is a nice game anyway..

and same if i like to play rayman game.. it was way too easy to do.. i mean nice graphic and music but that all.. i prefer donkey kong country 2 who have a ton of secret in each level.. you had to search to find like special coin in game ( i dont remember exactly) .

and yooka-laylee is way better than rayman.. rayman was so simple , i prefer to learn move and try to explore in each level like in yooka-laylee.

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bigfanofoldrare
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Re: Suggestions for the Sequel (potential spoilers)

Postby bigfanofoldrare » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:45 am

Spydr Webz wrote:In the games with bigger worlds like BT and DK64, the worlds main areas are divided into multiple areas or "sections" that are separated by tunnels, doorways, or some other kind of passage and each main area has a slightly different look and feel to it. Great examples of this are Witchyworld in BT, which had multiple "zones," like the Inferno, the Space Zone, or the Western Zone. Then Fungi Forest in DK64 had tunnels in the main area that lead to multiple other unique areas.

Yooka-Laylee's worlds are essentially giant single areas with little to no variation. A good exception is Galleon Galaxy, which splits all the main areas up with fly tubes.


agree completely..

that what i try to said in this topic : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5451&p=33438#p33438

xiriusnoodles
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Re: Wishes For Twooka Laylee (Non official name)

Postby xiriusnoodles » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:48 am

I agree with a lot of the improvements suggested here, but there's one thing I would like to add. Characters that are likely to appear next game, like Trowzer or Dr. Puzz, should get expanded roles, and their relationships with Yooka, Laylee, and other characters should be more developed.

However, I'd rather the relationships be developed not so much through character dialogue, although good writing is always a plus. Instead, their relationships would actually be developed by the gameplay itself.

For example, Trowzer only gives the main characters new moves in exchange for quills. In the next game, what if Trowzer started offering useful services as well? For a fee, Trowzer could revive Yooka and Laylee, then return them to the last safe platform they have stood on, in the case that they fall into a bottomless pit. For humor's sake, he could hop into the scene with a nurse's cap and syringe, and give them a shot to wake them up. An upgraded version of the service could give him a doctor's coat and a defibrillator, and Trowzer would shock them awake for temporary additional butterflies on the health meter. This would probably require a reworking of quills, or whatever currency that Playtonic uses in the next game. It would definitely give a good reason to collect quills though, aside from earning a Pagie. On top of that, it would show that Trowzer has actually made progress on expanding his business, and the costumes he wears for different shops and services would add some charm to his character.

As for Dr. Puzz, she could do research on creating new contraptions that give Yooka and Laylee a fighting chance against the antagonists of the next game. They could replace some of the more excruciating mini-games, like the golf courses (flashbacks to The Black Hole intensify) and they would show that Dr. Puzz is more invested in the effort against V.I.L.E than ever. She could also be at odds with Trowzer, should the snake salesman start selling some not-so-legally obtained technology in his own shops.

Haven't thought of stuff for Rextro and Kartos, but they should have the same sort of improvements as well.


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