Radio silence

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
FailureFactory
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Radio silence

Postby FailureFactory » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:17 pm

Yuke Quantum wrote:
PandaLover wrote:
FailureFactory wrote:As an aside, most developers don't love spending their office time to create some screenshots for the press guy instead of using it to do, you know, their job. Or rather, time developers spend doing screenshots is at least as much "wasted developer time" as it is "saved press guy time".


The developers take a screenshot of the work they are working on, while they are working on it to help show their status/progress. They are not spending hours setting up a scene and taking a bunch of screenshots like you would for promotional content. So no it doesn't cost any real time. The developer did not open up a random animation and take a picture of it, which barely would of taken any time in itself, they took a picture of the animation they were currently working on anyways. People seem to be implying that this sort of thing would take a significant amount of time (hours), which is quite ridiculous.


I don't work on video games but I do work on films and we don't commonly take pictures of our works for PR screenshots nor for handoffs within the team WHILE working on it. For the team, we give them everything we have at intervals. For PR you want it to be good shots. You see, there's a difference between what you HAVE and what you want to SHOW. It's a time consuming task to consider just what you want to reveal and what you want to keep hidden for the time being. That's business. Your benefit is what they don't know.


I'm in video games actually, so I'm honestly surprised with how much confidence PandaLover argues here. Not that it matters as much. It goes without saying that if you just walk in to people mid-work and say "Let's show this exact state to everyone", you're getting some pretty bad-looking results. Which is exactly what using working screenshots for promo purposes means.

Thanks for backing me up.

Yuke Quantum
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: Radio silence

Postby Yuke Quantum » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:55 pm

FailureFactory wrote:
Yuke Quantum wrote:
PandaLover wrote:
The developers take a screenshot of the work they are working on, while they are working on it to help show their status/progress. They are not spending hours setting up a scene and taking a bunch of screenshots like you would for promotional content. So no it doesn't cost any real time. The developer did not open up a random animation and take a picture of it, which barely would of taken any time in itself, they took a picture of the animation they were currently working on anyways. People seem to be implying that this sort of thing would take a significant amount of time (hours), which is quite ridiculous.


I don't work on video games but I do work on films and we don't commonly take pictures of our works for PR screenshots nor for handoffs within the team WHILE working on it. For the team, we give them everything we have at intervals. For PR you want it to be good shots. You see, there's a difference between what you HAVE and what you want to SHOW. It's a time consuming task to consider just what you want to reveal and what you want to keep hidden for the time being. That's business. Your benefit is what they don't know.


I'm in video games actually, so I'm honestly surprised with how much confidence PandaLover argues here. Not that it matters as much. It goes without saying that if you just walk in to people mid-work and say "Let's show this exact state to everyone", you're getting some pretty bad-looking results. Which is exactly what using working screenshots for promo purposes means.

Thanks for backing me up.


No problem dude. I was beginning to think I had an unrealistic grasp on the talent level of game designers: "they can dev and PR at the same time?! What am I doing with my life?!"

Thanks for giving a developers pov.
-Yuke Quantum
the thirst exploder

PandaLover
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:28 am

Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:51 pm

FailureFactory wrote:
Yuke Quantum wrote:
PandaLover wrote:
The developers take a screenshot of the work they are working on, while they are working on it to help show their status/progress. They are not spending hours setting up a scene and taking a bunch of screenshots like you would for promotional content. So no it doesn't cost any real time. The developer did not open up a random animation and take a picture of it, which barely would of taken any time in itself, they took a picture of the animation they were currently working on anyways. People seem to be implying that this sort of thing would take a significant amount of time (hours), which is quite ridiculous.


I don't work on video games but I do work on films and we don't commonly take pictures of our works for PR screenshots nor for handoffs within the team WHILE working on it. For the team, we give them everything we have at intervals. For PR you want it to be good shots. You see, there's a difference between what you HAVE and what you want to SHOW. It's a time consuming task to consider just what you want to reveal and what you want to keep hidden for the time being. That's business. Your benefit is what they don't know.


I'm in video games actually, so I'm honestly surprised with how much confidence PandaLover argues here. Not that it matters as much. It goes without saying that if you just walk in to people mid-work and say "Let's show this exact state to everyone", you're getting some pretty bad-looking results. Which is exactly what using working screenshots for promo purposes means.

Thanks for backing me up.


The studio head put together the email, he asked for a status update for the email from the animator. The animator gave him his status and sent him a screen shot of what hes working on. The studio head did not sneak up on the guy and say "screen cap your work-space right now". Please explain how it takes an hour to take the screenshot shown in the email. He is just displaying the animation in multiple perspective windows and taking a screenshot. That is a 30 second task. Repeatedly saying you work in games is not an argument, its like saying 1+1=3 is true because Im a mathematician. The studio head has been running game companies for around 20 years and making games for 35, I think its safe to say they know what they doing and are competent enough to get this done in a timely manner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Jaco ... esigner%29

Also what game studio do you work for?

FailureFactory
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Radio silence

Postby FailureFactory » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:10 pm

I work indie atm.

The point is that you have to choose what you put out. You have to halt your actual work and consider what's good enough to be shown. And whether it actually fits what you want to say.

If all you want to say is "George is atm doing our animation tree", fine, screencap the animation tree. If you want to show world 3 is coming along, you have to choose a good motive to show that. Uh, but maaybe without the skybox in it, we don't want people to complain about that everywhere. And could we have a character in it? People love characters. Huh, but maybe not the bee one, we want to keep that a surprise.

Seriously, why do I have to explain that some kinds of work cost time, not because the actions to perform them take time, but because choosing the right actions does. Only because you can type twenty pages of text in an hour you can't create an actually well-written short story of the same size in that time. Just as you can't necessarily decide on a good, representative screenshot in the time it takes to press contr+print. This is a no-brainer. The fact that the Camelot example you provided uses wip screenshots and content by other people does not strengthen your point, but instead shows the fact that it's not applicable on Playtonic's situation.

PandaLover
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:28 am

Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:08 pm

FailureFactory wrote:I work indie atm.

Things are starting to make sense...

FailureFactory wrote:If all you want to say is "George is atm doing our animation tree", fine, screencap the animation tree.

Yes, that is exactly what is happening.

FailureFactory wrote:If you want to show world 3 is coming along, you have to choose a good motive to show that. Uh, but maaybe without the skybox in it, we don't want people to complain about that everywhere. And could we have a character in it? People love characters. Huh, but maybe not the bee one, we want to keep that a surprise.

That is not what they are doing. In the case of the second screenshot they just put a character into the pr-existing world and took a screen shot of it. Not sure why they would modify the world as you say given the game world is open to backers to play in and has been for a long time, so you wont be fooling anyone by doing that. Its not really a big deal, its a casual thing the developers do every week, people are not going to go into a panic if a picture isn't 100% perfect. These pictures are not going to be plastered all over the front of their E3 demonstration in the future, they are just status screenshots, not some big promotional thing. You seem to be making a much bigger deal out of the pictures than they actually are.

FailureFactory wrote:Seriously, why do I have to explain that some kinds of work cost time, not because the actions to perform them take time, but because choosing the right actions does.

So you seem to be willing to admit now that these sorts of screenshots dont take much time in regards to actions taken to make them, and are now claiming its the thought behind them. Its a picuture of an animation, there is nothing else to show, the other one is a character just standing in the woods of the pvp server. Clearly they did not spend hours coming up with this. Whatever little thought went into it was also minimal. Again, its just a status screen shot, people are not tearing their hair out over this. Just take the screen shot and move on.


I used to make mods for video games when I was younger, and I did promotional screenshots before release. I would typically do them all in a 8-12 hour day. I think I posted a youtube video of my first ever mod/custom game on page 1 of this thread. Most of the time was in setting up large elaborate scenes that would grab peoples attention, and taking things further by having the characters move in around and fight each-other in battles. I would take hundreds of screen shots of the scenes and then go through each one and figure out which ones were the best, which also took a large chunk of time. There was some time in figuring out what to shoot, but that was on the lower side in regards to time commitment. Those are time consuming promotional screen shots, not 1 guy standing in a field. These clearly are not time consuming and I know I could of made these in very little time.

FailureFactory
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Radio silence

Postby FailureFactory » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:30 pm

Sure. Whatever you say. I think this argument has become moot quite a while ago. You complained that Playtonic should be faster with their updates and then talk about some other newsletter instead. Whatever am I supposed to say here?

Yuke Quantum
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: Radio silence

Postby Yuke Quantum » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:46 pm

Panda, you keep bringing up this Camelot thing like it's a marker for all development.

I think I'm done with this thread though.

FailureFactory, I wish you luck if you want to continue but I don't think Panda is understanding our points.
-Yuke Quantum
the thirst exploder

Piet
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:31 am

Re: Radio silence

Postby Piet » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:44 am

PandaLover wrote:
FailureFactory wrote:As an aside, most developers don't love spending their office time to create some screenshots for the press guy instead of using it to do, you know, their job. Or rather, time developers spend doing screenshots is at least as much "wasted developer time" as it is "saved press guy time".


The developers take a screenshot of the work they are working on, while they are working on it to help show their status/progress. They are not spending hours setting up a scene and taking a bunch of screenshots like you would for promotional content. So no it doesn't cost any real time. The developer did not open up a random animation and take a picture of it, which barely would of taken any time in itself, they took a picture of the animation they were currently working on anyways. People seem to be implying that this sort of thing would take a significant amount of time (hours), which is quite ridiculous.

^

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Rueckkoppler
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Radio silence

Postby Rueckkoppler » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:51 pm

FailureFactory wrote:Sure. Whatever you say. I think this argument has become moot quite a while ago. You complained that Playtonic should be faster with their updates and then talk about some other newsletter instead. Whatever am I supposed to say here?


Gotta side with you guys. Promotion has to be thought out in order to not screw up the public image of a project. Until that discussion went running in circles, this was a nice read!


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