Radio silence

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
Piet
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Radio silence

Postby Piet » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:20 am

Sooo... What's up with this whole radio silence thing?
We've had 1 update since release and after that... Nothing...
What's up with that?

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Rueckkoppler
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Rueckkoppler » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:03 pm

It's bugging me so much by now. I know they're probably hard at work to get this done, but man. I really hope that they'll have the big update incorporated in the Switch release. I watched so many reviews by now (and saw some spoilers by now), but I don't care that much anymore. The excitement vanished by now. I just hope they'll fix the biggest issues of the game.

This video did a nice recap on what's wrong with the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeU1bSsLerM

Yes, I didn't play it yet obviously, but it really sounds like they failed with the quill placement. And yep, world building apparently as well. At least they seem to fix everything else, while I'd like to have them take care of the former problem as well.

I really had a high tolerance and (up until the release) high trust in Playtonic, but at this point, it's hard not to be frustrated. Please restore my trust and deliver, Playtonic. I really want to love you guys.

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DarkTone
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Re: Radio silence

Postby DarkTone » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:58 am

Is it radio silence when they talk, just, not about the the main things certain backers want to hear?

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Meinhard1
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Meinhard1 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:31 am

I get that, but I mean we know it's on the way, and that this sort of thing takes time and effort. If they don't have solid information, then I'm not sure what the point in saying anything is .. I mean that would be pretty sloppy, really.

As Reuck says, they may want to tweak some things before release as well.


That's got to be one of the more damning evaluations for a game that received a wide ranging mix of review scores.

Piet
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Piet » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:59 pm

DarkTone wrote:Is it radio silence when they talk, just, not about the the main things certain backers want to hear?

They only tweet irrelevant stuff that nobody wants to read/hear.
We've had 1 game related update since the release of the game.
So yes; radio silence.

Piet
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Piet » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:31 pm

Yeahhh, the radio silence is over!
Nooo, still no friggin' relevant info!!

Yuke Quantum
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Yuke Quantum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:20 am

I'm just curious if any of the posters in this thread have experience in making video games, because I do not, but I would assume that it's incredibly time consuming. Don't you want the company your supporting to be hard at work doing exactly what they need to be doing instead of updating you that they spent the last (insert measurement of time) doing (insert technical wording).

Just relax. As far as kickstarters go, they are one of the few who stuck to their promises and released it in a relatively timely manner. I'm positive those promised updates will arrive.

It also baffles me that people who have not even TRIED the game show up in the forum to poo-post. You obviously already fell into believing whatever youtuber it is that you follow. You have already made a judgement and played a grand total of 0 hours, 0minutes, and 0 seconds. 0% completion.

One of the ironic thing is that this throwback sticks so wholeheartedly to its origins; comically telling you to have patience at the very last surprise (toolbox secret). It's ironic because we live in an era of instant everything, but with this genre of game you'd have been waiting years! (I'm sure they won't make us wait that)
-Yuke Quantum
the thirst exploder

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Rueckkoppler
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Rueckkoppler » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:27 pm

Hey I know all that. In fact, I've been saying the exact things you said right now: That we know nothing & should play it ourselves. I know that they don't make us wait for no reason, but you know, as much logic as one can utilize to understand this situation... The wait still sucks. About being negative: Naturally, I've seen many positive reviews as well. But when you're satisfied, you don't waste much time talking about that.

I can only try to imagine how much the negative points (in, let's say, the review I posted) matter. But they seem at least somehow legit to me. The note placement in the Banjo games had some real purpose and I noticed that before people pointed out that it's a bit off in Yooka-Laylee. But I'm excited that they're changing so much in order to improve the game. That's why I'm happy after all with my choice of the Switch version (given it runs well, that is).

Edit: Okay you might've not directed your answer to me I guess.

PandaLover
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Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:12 pm

Yuke Quantum wrote:I'm just curious if any of the posters in this thread have experience in making video games, because I do not, but I would assume that it's incredibly time consuming. Don't you want the company your supporting to be hard at work doing exactly what they need to be doing instead of updating you that they spent the last (insert measurement of time) doing (insert technical wording).


I funded another game called camelot unchained and they send emails atleast once every 4-5 days with detailed status updates. Here is an example below. I think playtonic adopts the old Rare attitude of never telling anyone what you are doing during development. Rare was notorious for this. The guy who runs this game, Mark Jacobs, seems to take the fact that we entrusted him our money very seriously and tries to be as open and transparent as possible.

Image

Yuke Quantum
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Yuke Quantum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:13 pm

PandaLover wrote:
Yuke Quantum wrote:I'm just curious if any of the posters in this thread have experience in making video games, because I do not, but I would assume that it's incredibly time consuming. Don't you want the company your supporting to be hard at work doing exactly what they need to be doing instead of updating you that they spent the last (insert measurement of time) doing (insert technical wording).


I funded another game called camelot unchained and they send emails atleast once every 4-5 days with detailed status updates. Here is an example below. I think playtonic adopts the old Rare attitude of never telling anyone what you are doing during development. Rare was notorious for this. The guy who runs this game, Mark Jacobs, seems to take the fact that we entrusted him our money very seriously and tries to be as open and transparent as possible.

Image

I will say that's impressive. That developer obviously puts a lot of time into the detailed analysis of what they do and puts it into words most can understand. I'm curious how much of his/her time is wasted on that instead of developing and whether or not the breakdown is something developer does themselves or if there's a PR department. I don't know the game and can't say one way or the other if it's a big or small team but I don't think that there are such standards that are imperative to kickstarter campaigns.

One kickstarted developer does these detailed breakdown reports, so all kickstarted developers should?

Plus, as we've seen in just the past year people in the public eye have to be careful what they say to the masses as words are twisted and soon enough they're gettig death threats.(NMS) YL was known by many because of the Rare and BK connection, hanging an even likelier chance of controversy. (Look at the JonTron thing - which had NOTHING to do with them and they were still affected.)

The age of now means that people want their info and they want it now, but these old skool developers aren't used to that.

People back something on Kickstarter and sudfenly think they're producers and deserve a say for their 1-20 dollar contribution. (Donating thousands is a little different, but I still think they should understand they have no formal training and leave creators to create.)

Patience is a virtue.
-Yuke Quantum
the thirst exploder

FailureFactory
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Re: Radio silence

Postby FailureFactory » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:32 pm

Yuke Quantum wrote:I'm just curious if any of the posters in this thread have experience in making video games, because I do not, but I would assume that it's incredibly time consuming. Don't you want the company your supporting to be hard at work doing exactly what they need to be doing instead of updating you that they spent the last (insert measurement of time) doing (insert technical wording).

Just relax. As far as kickstarters go, they are one of the few who stuck to their promises and released it in a relatively timely manner. I'm positive those promised updates will arrive.

It also baffles me that people who have not even TRIED the game show up in the forum to poo-post. You obviously already fell into believing whatever youtuber it is that you follow. You have already made a judgement and played a grand total of 0 hours, 0minutes, and 0 seconds. 0% completion.

One of the ironic thing is that this throwback sticks so wholeheartedly to its origins; comically telling you to have patience at the very last surprise (toolbox secret). It's ironic because we live in an era of instant everything, but with this genre of game you'd have been waiting years! (I'm sure they won't make us wait that)


I'm a developer, and yes, it is time consuming. Personally, I feel that updating social networks etc is a huge distraction, too. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Ideally, you have someone in the team who actually has the time and will to do this kind of stuff. Otherwise, you'll have to force yourself to do it occasionally.

That Camelot thing is incredibly much. Whoever would in fact want to read a text like this every 4 days? I've once backed Queen Games, a boardgame company. It was 5 months between the posts. Obviously you want to have something in the middle. 1-2 per month sounds perfectly fine to me. Once per week if there's something to tell, or more on special occasions. But that's just my silly personal opinion.

PandaLover
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Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:59 pm

I dont think you need to offer up as much detail as the Camelot Unchained dev team. However it would be good twice a month to give a brief status report to backers. The project manager/studio head (Gavin Price) should know the high level status details of the team off the top of his head, so it would take maybe 15 minutes to compose such an email. Its nice to know whats going on and what is being done. Even with the Camelot emails, much of the information would be stored in whatever software development team collaboration tool they use (like the user stories), so it would be alot of copy pasting more or less. The other details are mostly high level status details that the project manager/studio head would know off hand. So in all it would probably would take 30-45 minutes to make an email like what I posted.

PandaLover
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Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:28 pm

Yuke Quantum wrote:
Plus, as we've seen in just the past year people in the public eye have to be careful what they say to the masses as words are twisted and soon enough they're gettig death threats.(NMS)


I made a small sc2 custom game in college that became popular (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLVe8Psqvt8), briefly 2nd most played custom game on SC2 North America. Even I got death threats from that, no big deal really.

Yuke Quantum
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Yuke Quantum » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:28 pm

PandaLover wrote:
Yuke Quantum wrote:
Plus, as we've seen in just the past year people in the public eye have to be careful what they say to the masses as words are twisted and soon enough they're gettig death threats.(NMS)


I made a small sc2 custom game in college that became popular (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLVe8Psqvt8), briefly 2nd most played custom game on SC2 North America. Even I got death threats from that, no big deal really.


You're game looks pretty awesome.

I'm also sorry you got death threats, although you don't seem to mind.

I would consider it scary, though. A lot of times we consider situations from what we experienced; you deduce it can't be too scary.

But the one time someone does follow through with their threat makes it real and that NMS example, people showed up to their place of employment and took pictures of them. That's a bit scarier.

So, what I mean is that everyone has different opinion on whether the threats are scary/real enough.
-Yuke Quantum
the thirst exploder

FailureFactory
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Re: Radio silence

Postby FailureFactory » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:03 am

PandaLover wrote:I dont think you need to offer up as much detail as the Camelot Unchained dev team. However it would be good twice a month to give a brief status report to backers. The project manager/studio head (Gavin Price) should know the high level status details of the team off the top of his head, so it would take maybe 15 minutes to compose such an email. Its nice to know whats going on and what is being done. Even with the Camelot emails, much of the information would be stored in whatever software development team collaboration tool they use (like the user stories), so it would be alot of copy pasting more or less. The other details are mostly high level status details that the project manager/studio head would know off hand. So in all it would probably would take 30-45 minutes to make an email like what I posted.


Sorry, but I find this estimate to be highly unrealistic. Maybe if your mail is just facts spewed with no regard for spelling, no new images and without a check for whether the details you're sharing are still acurate. If you want your mail to look good, be acurate and have some new renders/screenshots, you'd have to have a very effective working pipeline where creating backer mails was a consideration from the start to get any near that time. Seriously, making screenshots and renders alone, while making sure they're current. If you do that while writing your mail it easily costs you the first 15 minutes.

PandaLover
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Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:59 pm

FailureFactory wrote:
PandaLover wrote:I dont think you need to offer up as much detail as the Camelot Unchained dev team. However it would be good twice a month to give a brief status report to backers. The project manager/studio head (Gavin Price) should know the high level status details of the team off the top of his head, so it would take maybe 15 minutes to compose such an email. Its nice to know whats going on and what is being done. Even with the Camelot emails, much of the information would be stored in whatever software development team collaboration tool they use (like the user stories), so it would be alot of copy pasting more or less. The other details are mostly high level status details that the project manager/studio head would know off hand. So in all it would probably would take 30-45 minutes to make an email like what I posted.


Sorry, but I find this estimate to be highly unrealistic. Maybe if your mail is just facts spewed with no regard for spelling, no new images and without a check for whether the details you're sharing are still acurate. If you want your mail to look good, be acurate and have some new renders/screenshots, you'd have to have a very effective working pipeline where creating backer mails was a consideration from the start to get any near that time. Seriously, making screenshots and renders alone, while making sure they're current. If you do that while writing your mail it easily costs you the first 15 minutes.


If you read the email you will see that the first two screen shots came from the developers and not the guy who wrote the email, so those cost him no time to get. Also the second two came from a backer of the game. The came has a building system that is like an advanced form of minecraft building. You have many different block types at your disposal and players build buildings brick by brick. That castle was built by a player using the CUBE system and submitted to them, so that also takes more time. There were four more screenshots I did not post from the email, and those came from other developers as well, again taking no time for the person who wrote the email.

FailureFactory
Posts: 93
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Re: Radio silence

Postby FailureFactory » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:46 pm

PandaLover wrote:
FailureFactory wrote:
PandaLover wrote:I dont think you need to offer up as much detail as the Camelot Unchained dev team. However it would be good twice a month to give a brief status report to backers. The project manager/studio head (Gavin Price) should know the high level status details of the team off the top of his head, so it would take maybe 15 minutes to compose such an email. Its nice to know whats going on and what is being done. Even with the Camelot emails, much of the information would be stored in whatever software development team collaboration tool they use (like the user stories), so it would be alot of copy pasting more or less. The other details are mostly high level status details that the project manager/studio head would know off hand. So in all it would probably would take 30-45 minutes to make an email like what I posted.


Sorry, but I find this estimate to be highly unrealistic. Maybe if your mail is just facts spewed with no regard for spelling, no new images and without a check for whether the details you're sharing are still acurate. If you want your mail to look good, be acurate and have some new renders/screenshots, you'd have to have a very effective working pipeline where creating backer mails was a consideration from the start to get any near that time. Seriously, making screenshots and renders alone, while making sure they're current. If you do that while writing your mail it easily costs you the first 15 minutes.


If you read the email you will see that the first two screen shots came from the developers and not the guy who wrote the email, so those cost him no time to get. Also the second two came from a backer of the game. The came has a building system that is like an advanced form of minecraft building. You have many different block types at your disposal and players build buildings brick by brick. That castle was built by a player using the CUBE system and submitted to them, so that also takes more time. There were four more screenshots I did not post from the email, and those came from other developers as well, again taking no time for the person who wrote the email.


Sure, if you don't have to provide such content, it's a different thing. It all depends on whether you have to generate extra content for your update mails, or whether all has already been generated and is available. Ideally, a game studio has some press guy (that's basically what I said before), but whether or not it's the press guy to create those screenshots or not, SOMEBODY has to do that work. If it's not your own company, that's great, but it's hardly something you can expect or base fair expectations on. If it is, you will have to spend that time at some end.

As an aside, most developers don't love spending their office time to create some screenshots for the press guy instead of using it to do, you know, their job. Or rather, time developers spend doing screenshots is at least as much "wasted developer time" as it is "saved press guy time".

Piet
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Piet » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:41 pm

PTG's communication is after the release had been... Pretty... Bad, tbh.

I still love the game tho!

PandaLover
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Re: Radio silence

Postby PandaLover » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:21 am

FailureFactory wrote:As an aside, most developers don't love spending their office time to create some screenshots for the press guy instead of using it to do, you know, their job. Or rather, time developers spend doing screenshots is at least as much "wasted developer time" as it is "saved press guy time".


The developers take a screenshot of the work they are working on, while they are working on it to help show their status/progress. They are not spending hours setting up a scene and taking a bunch of screenshots like you would for promotional content. So no it doesn't cost any real time. The developer did not open up a random animation and take a picture of it, which barely would of taken any time in itself, they took a picture of the animation they were currently working on anyways. People seem to be implying that this sort of thing would take a significant amount of time (hours), which is quite ridiculous.

Yuke Quantum
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Re: Radio silence

Postby Yuke Quantum » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:37 am

PandaLover wrote:
FailureFactory wrote:As an aside, most developers don't love spending their office time to create some screenshots for the press guy instead of using it to do, you know, their job. Or rather, time developers spend doing screenshots is at least as much "wasted developer time" as it is "saved press guy time".


The developers take a screenshot of the work they are working on, while they are working on it to help show their status/progress. They are not spending hours setting up a scene and taking a bunch of screenshots like you would for promotional content. So no it doesn't cost any real time. The developer did not open up a random animation and take a picture of it, which barely would of taken any time in itself, they took a picture of the animation they were currently working on anyways. People seem to be implying that this sort of thing would take a significant amount of time (hours), which is quite ridiculous.


I don't work on video games but I do work on films and we don't commonly take pictures of our works for PR screenshots nor for handoffs within the team WHILE working on it. For the team, we give them everything we have at intervals. For PR you want it to be good shots. You see, there's a difference between what you HAVE and what you want to SHOW. It's a time consuming task to consider just what you want to reveal and what you want to keep hidden for the time being. That's business. Your benefit is what they don't know.
-Yuke Quantum
the thirst exploder


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