What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Reminisce over some of the past wares you remember fondly.
User avatar
GrayMagicΓ
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:16 pm

What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:35 pm

I'm sure the vast majority of us are here because they want a Banjo-Threeie by a different name. I'm sure not all of us hail them as beacons of perfection, and it would be nice to see Playtonic not repeat past mistakes.

For Banjo Kazooie:

Lone notes are frustrating and counterintuitive. The whole point of notes is to lead the player on a trail, giving a level a sense of direction. Having a look me note doesn't point the player anywhere, and if they get a note score of 99 finding that last one is just frustrating
The sole case of this is the note in front of the path up to the top of TTC.

No repeating content three times. The first three seasons of CCW aren't substantially different to warrant multiple climbs up the tree; multiple switches to alter the season for the sake of puzzles (not notes) without having to restart from the bottom of the tree would have been nice.

Lives are completely pointless. They're easily farmable, and all they do is make you redo Grunty's lair when you run out.

Ranged combat (shooting eggs) is taxed far too heavily. You're forced to stand still while shooting them, and on top of that they cost ammo. Being able to shoot while moving a la Mario's fireballs would provide a greater incentitive to use them, even if they still had the ammo cost.

For Banjo Tooie:

Notes are completely pointless. There's no point in the game where you need more than you have, there's no rationing like in N&B, and there's no benefit for finding large sums of them early in the game. If there's a number of ways of solving this, the first that comes to mind is having Jamjars appear to teach you a new move whenever you reach a new certain amount of notes, letting you access later moves earlier on in the game if you're avidly collecting notes. Speaking of moves...

Fewer context sensitive moves. You know what's a fun move? Being able to sacrifice combat for mobility via Talon Trot or the ability to attack in midair, period. You know what's not? Fire eggs that are almost never used for anything but blatantly obvious "USE FIRE EGGS HERE" situations. The boots, eggs, FPS-exclusive, and Kazooie launching move (which is almost exclusively just for breaking walls marked with her face) take up the majority of the abilities you learn. The only three BK had were the two boots and the spring launch pad.

Too many large expanses of nothing. Once you collect the notes from a road, most of the time it's devoid of collectibles.

Difficult minigames. The difference between a lovable shoot em up segment in a Kirby game or most of DK64's minigames and dreaded segments like Canary Mary and the morph ball bosses in Metroid Prime 2 is that the ones most players consider fun are relatively easy to complete. I'm not against having a difficult main game, but minigames are supposed to be fun, easy, short diversions. If you want their Pagies to be difficult to collect, just make the minigame difficult to reach, not complete.

Anyone else annoyed by anything?
DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

User avatar
Scrubber
Posts: 1394
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Scrubber » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:36 pm

B-K nothing
B-T turning into mumbo was tedious, i don't want supporting cast to be playable. The FPS segments were annoying too. May have been better with a map so as to not keep getting lost.
Last edited by Scrubber on Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dotEXE
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby dotEXE » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:29 pm

I mean... I've got no real complaints across the board. I didn't mind having to adventure to find notes in my adventure/platformer game. The lives were pointless but having them wasn't a detriment. Banjo-Tooie fixed that right up anyway. The egg mechanic was a tradeoff, trading mobility for the ability to attack at range; it makes a lot of sense. Notes weren't pointless in BT? I liked the extra eggs, they provided combat options (freeze foes, use the robo-chicken to attack from extra range, etc).

I dunno. I liked the games and nothing really made me go "oh not this again".

The only thing in the games that bothered me was running from the engine room to the ship propellers in Rusty Bucket Bay, and that was because it was hard and the camera would NEVER center behind you. :lol:
Make the forum great again.

Hell Raider
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:34 am

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Hell Raider » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:13 am

haha literally my only complaint is that you get the game over screen in Banjo Kazooie when you 'save and quit.' I remember when I was a knee-biter turning off the console as soon as I had saved so I didn't have to see me lose each time XD

User avatar
GrayMagicΓ
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:14 am

You just reminded me by mentioning the clockwork Kazooie eggs what a horrible addition they were. Each level had at least one puzzle that could be entirely skipped by them. Freezing enemies or taking them our from a range was pointless because 1) they die in one hit msot of the time anyways, use a blue egg and 2) blue eggs also attack from a range. And I was just saying that it was pointless to restrict ranged combat by making you have to stand still for it *and* using ammo; I'd have been fine with the turret-style gameplay if you had infinite eggs.
DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

User avatar
dotEXE
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby dotEXE » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:14 am

To Hell Raider - what's wild is this is NOT the first time I've heard that haha
Make the forum great again.

User avatar
Scrubber
Posts: 1394
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Scrubber » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:49 pm

Canary Mary in Cloud Cuckoo Land, how did i forget that one, HATED that. Completely destroyed an old Xbox 360 controller trying to beat her with the spoon method.

User avatar
travisschultz95
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby travisschultz95 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:43 pm

When I was much younger I always thought Tooie was the vastly superior title, mostly because of ow much MORE it was. However after replaying the two this year I can now testify that less is more. Don't get me wrong, they are both two of my favorite games ever made, but the large amount of backtracking in Tooie (especially with Mumbo objectives) gets annoying. Not to mention the framerate is almost unplayable in places like Hailfire Peaks (although the Xbox version fixes this.)

Pearcinator
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:11 am

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Pearcinator » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:17 am

Banjo-Kazooie - It was too short. The levels are actually fairly small and can be completed in an hour.

Banjo-Tooie - Perfect platformer! My favourite ever. Only thing I disliked was that there were TOO many moves now and some were only used once or twice.

I LOVE the backtracking to fully complete levels. If I remember correctly, there was only ONE case of necessary backtracking in Banjo-Kazooie (speed boots move in Gobi Valley for Boggy race in Freezeezy Peak). Banjo-Tooie had it for every level and I thought it was really cool! Opening up new areas/secrets made it fun to go back there!

User avatar
Punksthetic
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:51 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Punksthetic » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:27 pm

I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it, but the Clinker missions in Banjo-Tooie were a pain in the ass. You'd have to search for these disgusting piles of poo-poo and then you'd eventually get down to just 1 Clinker, and by the time you found it the time would run out and you'd have to start all over again. Really didn't like those missions. At least with Canary Mary it's clear what needs to be done.

I also agree about the context sensitive moves being lame. One thing I love about Banjo games in general is that you get freedom to practice moves whenever you want in a variety of situations, but some moves are so specific to a task that you may as well not even learn a move and just have it be a scripted event that plays out.

As for the eggs, I think half the fun was just playing around with them to see their effects on the baddies in the worlds. I bet if that game was made today, you could do a lot more with the eggs, but I'm sure hardware limitations were a factor in their usage. In concept, fire, ice, and grenade eggs were awesome, but in execution they were a bit of a shallow inclusion in the game.

User avatar
GrayMagicΓ
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:51 pm

Punksthetic wrote:I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned it, but the Clinker missions in Banjo-Tooie were a pain in the ass. You'd have to search for these disgusting piles of poo-poo and then you'd eventually get down to just 1 Clinker, and by the time you found it the time would run out and you'd have to start all over again. Really didn't like those missions. At least with Canary Mary it's clear what needs to be done.
Good point, did you also feel the same way about the TNT FPS segment is GGM? I think both would have benefitted from having more objectives than the segment required.

As for the eggs, I think half the fun was just playing around with them to see their effects on the baddies in the worlds. I bet if that game was made today, you could do a lot more with the eggs, but I'm sure hardware limitations were a factor in their usage. In concept, fire, ice, and grenade eggs were awesome, but in execution they were a bit of a shallow inclusion in the game.

Fair enough, I suppose I never experimented with them much in combat unless it was painfully obvious that there was a weakness (ice eggs on fire enemies and vice versa, grenade anything I can't hurt, etc).
DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

User avatar
Punksthetic
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:51 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Punksthetic » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:59 pm

Yeah, same dealio with the TNT sticks. I think the FPS parts were just unnecessary to the whole experience, and that's coming from someone who loves Banjo-Tooie even more than the first game. It's a platformer, so objectives should revolve around that game mechanic.

There wasn't really much in the line of "combat" in Banjo games aside from boss battles, but I just mean picking on gruntlings and other drone enemies. Like, I'd freeze them, then thaw them with fire eggs, then when they're about to hit me, I freeze them again, then go behind them and explode them with a grenade egg. There's some sort of twisted cartoon pleasure I get from that stuff.

User avatar
DarkTone
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:30 am

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby DarkTone » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:52 pm

So far, my only complaint is the camera inside rooms. I 100% Gobi Valley except for 4 music notes. After an hour it turns out they were in a simple place, but the camera NEVER faces it.

I know you're meant to look everywhere, but the key word is "look". Still, amazing game so far.

User avatar
GrayMagicΓ
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:23 pm

DarkTone wrote:So far, my only complaint is the camera inside rooms. I 100% Gobi Valley except for 4 music notes. After an hour it turns out they were in a simple place, but the camera NEVER faces it.

I know you're meant to look everywhere, but the key word is "look". Still, amazing game so far.

Were they the ones inside Jinxy? If not, where were they?
DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

User avatar
DarkTone
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:30 am

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby DarkTone » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:36 am

GrayMagicΓ wrote:
DarkTone wrote:So far, my only complaint is the camera inside rooms. I 100% Gobi Valley except for 4 music notes. After an hour it turns out they were in a simple place, but the camera NEVER faces it.

I know you're meant to look everywhere, but the key word is "look". Still, amazing game so far.

Were they the ones inside Jinxy? If not, where were they?


Inside the snake charmer pyramid. You can't see them, and you can't turn the camera.

User avatar
GrayMagicΓ
Posts: 1072
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:16 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:02 am

DarkTone wrote:
GrayMagicΓ wrote:
DarkTone wrote:So far, my only complaint is the camera inside rooms. I 100% Gobi Valley except for 4 music notes. After an hour it turns out they were in a simple place, but the camera NEVER faces it.

I know you're meant to look everywhere, but the key word is "look". Still, amazing game so far.

Were they the ones inside Jinxy? If not, where were they?


Inside the snake charmer pyramid. You can't see them, and you can't turn the camera.

Ah, I suppose it's been muscle memory for me to collect them. I'm planning on making some videos on BK's level design, I'll have to remember that.
DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

User avatar
GameFreak
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:20 am

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby GameFreak » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:30 pm

My only real complaint is the sometimes ridiculous over the top minigames. That stupid stupid Pot o Gold minigame!!! And the shooting Tnt mission. Also I hate the aiming controls. Mr Patch and Lord woo fak fak were so hard because of terrible aiming controls.

User avatar
Duckypoos
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:23 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby Duckypoos » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:47 pm

dotEXE wrote:The only thing in the games that bothered me was running from the engine room to the ship propellers in Rusty Bucket Bay, and that was because it was hard and the camera would NEVER center behind you. :lol:


I nearly broke my controller doing that one :evil: other than that nothing BK was my favourite game on the N64 by far.

Tooie was just too darn big and confused my poor brain

User avatar
weebbby
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:21 pm

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby weebbby » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:17 pm

B-K
Give me moar perfection

B-T
Worlds too large
Canary Mary
FPS sections
Pointless moves
Egg aiming being required too often and in tight situations. I like the option but..

notdog1996
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:00 am
Location: Quebec

Re: What did people dislike about BK/BT?

Postby notdog1996 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:53 pm

The only thing I would change is canary mary. She was insane in the last world and I never beat her in all the times I played. This is literally the only thing that keeps me from 100% completion. Players shouldn't be punished for not being able to tap a button like a machine.


Return to “Past Glories”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron