Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Reminisce over some of the past wares you remember fondly.

Did you like the collection mechanics from Donkey Kong 64?

Yes, I loved every part of it
21
30%
Yes, but certain collectables were overkill / The world was too littered
42
61%
No, I did not enjoy it and I hope Yooka Laylee will get this part right.
4
6%
Other (Specify)
2
3%
 
Total votes: 69

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Yavga
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Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Yavga » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:14 pm

There seem to be people who dislike the collectables from DK64,
because there were too much or too tedious.

Others however seem to like the challenge from the variety of collectables.

I'd like to compare the collection mechanics from DK64 with Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie.

Why? Because Playtonic stated "Collectables in Yooka Laylee will not be as tedious as in DK64"

IMO: I loved the collectables in DK64 but I agree they could have finetuned the system somewhat better,
certain collectables were overkill, like ammunition, grenades and small bananas. The world was too littered.

On the other side I disliked Banjo-tooie's note system, note-nests took away a lot of fun that Banjo Kazooie had with collecting the notes. It was too easy... And it felt rushed. 1x treble clef + 16x note nest.

Where should the line be drawn? I like to discuss collectables on a deeper scale. What was your experience and how would you re-design the collectables system in Yooka Laylee?
Last edited by Yavga on Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TrenteR
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby TrenteR » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:22 pm

Actually something I realized recently on the playthrough, it is a bit much yes.
I love this game all collectibles, the whole game is amazing.

The amount looks like it was too much, but not really. They put so much in it because of casual and bad players. Even players who not find everything can easily complete the game. In the game are 949 Banana Coins and you need about 100-200 i think?
That looks more like, they wanted to be sure everyone is able to beat this game.

I personally hate some of the mini games. This Beavers

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:05 pm

To me the issue wasn't the quantity of the collectibles, but rather the methods of collecting them. The unmarked backtracking was worse than it was in BT, and having to backtrack to character barrels to get character specific bananas was tedious. If you could use the D-pad to instantly swap characters and either nothing required things from future worlds *or* the only times they'd require it would be clearly segregated from the main segments of the worlds, then the quantity would have been fine.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby wwwarea » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:54 am

GrayMagicΓ wrote:To me the issue wasn't the quantity of the collectibles, but rather the methods of collecting them. The unmarked backtracking was worse than it was in BT, and having to backtrack to character barrels to get character specific bananas was tedious. If you could use the D-pad to instantly swap characters and either nothing required things from future worlds *or* the only times they'd require it would be clearly segregated from the main segments of the worlds, then the quantity would have been fine.


Mainly this..
I don't mind BT though. Being able to go back to an existing area and unlocking a new part was actually awesome and can make a level more memorial. But however, too much backtracking like DK64 (Don't even get me started...) was just a lot of un-fun work I think. Haha!

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Latikos » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:26 am

Though I liked DK64, I agree that some collectibles were a bit too much.
I'm perfectly fine with how they handled the Golden Bananas, Fairies, ammos and crystal coconuts, however getting the 100 bananas in each world and with each kong (for a total of 500 bananas per world) was a bit too much. I'm kind of a completionist so I have to find every necessary collectibles... In the first few worlds, I didn't really mind it since their locations were pretty obvious however, as soon as I reached Gloomy Galleon, things became much more tedious... I remember roaming the level for at least one hour, looking for Lanky's last 5 blue bananas... The same thing happened in Creepy Castle (only for Diddy this time).
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Yavga » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:20 pm

From around the internets:


Also; just make sure you don't make those "collectibles" turn the game into a collect-a-thon because imo that's one of the biggest issues I have with a lot of Rare's classic platformers; the collecting often overshadowed everything else to the point that it felt like that's all you were doing most of the time; collecting for the sake of collecting and sometimes it really felt forced on you. In the best 2D platformers, like SMB3, SMW and Yoshi's Island and in games like Super Mario 64 and Galaxy etc, I never really felt like all the stuff I was collecting was particularly forced or that there was just too much crap to necessarily collect but Rare's games suffered from that quite a lot, so I'd just say to pay particular attention to that aspect.

It's not about just giving those collectables some reason for being there either because that won't make collecting lots of random crap any more fun, especially if there's like ten different types of thing you basically have to collect and lots of them scattered all over the levels. It will still be a collect-a-thon. The fun in the levels shouldn't come from constantly collecting lots of crap but from how enjoyable it actually is to run, jump and play around in the world in and of itself. What is there to do? Where is there to go? What can you interact with? How does it test your skill? How much fun is it fighting/killing the enemies? Can you do things like skill based attacks on multiple enemies in a row by not landing on the ground or rolling through a lot of them in a row etc? How creative and imaginative is it? What secrets are there to discover? Just how much fun can you have in the world, level, platform, enemy and puzzle designs in and of themselves?

Collecting all the trinkets should mostly just be a cool bonus and/or for completionists imo; like collecting coins in Super Mario games basically isn't necessary at all but it's fun where they are placed etc and you even get a small reward for collecting 100 coins, or you potentially get a mini game if you collect enough flowers in a level in Yoshi's Island or you get a bonus level for getting 100% of the collectibles in each world in Yoshi's Island etc. That kind of stuff.

Anyhoo. Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing how this turns out.


I can certainly see his point. But I have mixed feelings to this opinion.
It is true that the collectables must not overshadow everything else, but a strength Rare had was the unique approach to the usability of collectables. They were very varied and all had a unique purpose. No collectable felt unnecesairly.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Yavga » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:52 pm

Just recieved a message from Jens to my question:


+31 Upvoted in the AMA, when you're returning home drunk from the bar you're at now, be sure to let the community know ;)

*hiccup* QUESTION:

Quote: "collectables will not be as 'tedious' as in DK64" Banjo Tooie introduced "note nests" I honestly thought it was a step backwards from "notes" in Banjo-Kazooie. I actually loved DK64 for the many collectables (coins, fairies, bananas, golden bananas) Will "every nook and cranny collectors" be happy with the end result? It adds major replay value.



Hi Joost,

Thank you for your message! I think it is going to be closer to Banjo Kazooie, where you’ve got chains of notes you can collect as you explore the level.

Cheers,

Jens
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby UnholySanctuary » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:18 am

Personally, I liked DK64. Sure some parts were extraordinarily frustrating (such as that race with that one beetle in Angry Aztec). I've even completed the game 100% (or rather, 101% according to the game) back in the day. I can understand why it's not for everyone; there is A LOOOT to collect, and sometimes it can get cumbersome. I think I recall Grant Kurkhope mentioning on Guest Grumps that DK64 held a world record for the number of collectibles. It's not my all-time favorite Rare game, but it's high on the list.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Malzbier » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:04 am

I don't really mind most of the collectables, except maybe the crystal coconuts. (Could've made those barrels time based) Personally, I like running around the worlds and collect all the stuff, even the bananas. I don't even mind the backtracking. What I do mind however are the minigames. There's just too much of them and they can be reeeaaally hard. (Especially the beetle race)

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Luma Party » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:03 pm

I don't really get why people think there are too many collectables.
DK64 was my first Rareware game, maybe that's why I don't get it.
I actually like collecting the Golden Bananas, the bananas, fairies, etc.
Getting banana medals is a bit of a different story though.
But personally, I think that's what makes the game really fun.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby GildasMagnus » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:27 pm

I enjoyed DK64, and I enjoyed the way they handled collectibles on the whole. However, I didn't like that each character had to collect each thing, meaning one hundred bananas become Five hundred, etc etc. Having some things that only certain characters can reach is fine, having an entire new set for each is too far.

I'm glad Yooka-Laylee will be returning to the oldschool, leading players through levels with clever placement.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Salty Joe » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:52 pm

I got bored of the game at a certain point, I think I just got lost with so much stuff to do.

May give it another go, once I find the right cable for my N64.
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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby T.S. » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:46 am

Yes, I loved every part of it!!! The collectables were NOT overkill, and to this day remains my favorite game, despite the advancement in graphics, innovation, and technology. While I don't expect a comment from the team on this, I do hope that you will create a sequel to the open-world, 3-D platformer that was DK 64 on the latest system in due time.

That the game, along with other titles, has not had a worthy sequel on Nintend by a talented group like the team here is one of the greatest catastrophes in gaming. I couldn't be more happy though, life is full of opportunity and I'm optimistic for the potential which the future holds. I wish you the best, and let us know how we can help voice our support to make this happen! :D :D :D :D

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Alucard » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:45 pm

I really enjoyed DK 64, one of my favorite games of all time and I think the idea is not bad with those different colored bananas to collect but in some cases you dont even know anymore where you have some of them left. It is just too much of backtracking but still its a great game. Those collectables melons, crystal coconuts, oranges and ammunition crates where okey, I enjoyed to collect an item for each feature the kongs could it reminded me on zelda (arrows for the bow, bombs, magicpots, rupees there are also many collectables), but in the case of the music instruments I thought this would be not so necessary to add an item which refills the power of the instruments, it would be better If it whould be like in zelda where you dont need any magic power or a collectable to regain the power or in zeldas case to use it. So basically it would be better if there where not so much color variations for each kong. I think it would be better if every single kong could collect those bananas and banana coins without color variations, but still its unique to this game. Yooka-Laylee should be a mix of Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie in case of collectables. I just loved to collect every single of 100 notes in each world and also all those ammunition variations in Tooie. So a mix could be very awesome and on of my favorite collectables are those special ones like the rare and nintendo coin in DK 64 or those hidden stop n swop eggs to unlock secrets or the golden rareware banana in DK 64. All those secrets are awesome and I just want more of them, more unlockables etc.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby smashbro596 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:12 pm

also some objectives (like having to beat the entire dk arcade game) were a bit on the tougher side. like... too much so. if dk arcade was gonna be there at all, id rather it be a diversion rather than a requirement to get 102%
dk64 is a great game. but can be frustrating at times. it should not be your first 3d platformer if you are a completionist. banjo kazooie did a much better job.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Rueckkoppler » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:09 pm

smashbro596 wrote:also some objectives (like having to beat the entire dk arcade game) were a bit on the tougher side. like... too much so. if dk arcade was gonna be there at all, id rather it be a diversion rather than a requirement to get 102%
dk64 is a great game. but can be frustrating at times. it should not be your first 3d platformer if you are a completionist. banjo kazooie did a much better job.


Yep, if I didn't play it on the virtual console with the possibility to save everywhere, I'd probably lost my mind during many mini games and platforming sections (even though my problem with these were the clumsy controls) :lol:

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Pearcinator » Sun May 29, 2016 7:56 am

Yeah there were too many collectables but DK64's biggest issue are the extremely difficult and sometimes broken minigames (*cough* Beaver Bother)

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Scrubber » Sun May 29, 2016 1:49 pm

I don't think there ARE too many collectables in DK64 it's just the horribly tedious method of which you collect them by. Nobody enjoys having to change characters to collect something that you can touch but can't pick up. It's stupid.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Spydr Webz » Mon May 30, 2016 3:44 am

I was never bothered by the collectibles in DK64. Even when I'd pass by something that I couldn't interact with because I wasn't the right character, I didn't mind, probably because I was never in a rush and I liked taking my time with the game, listening to the music and enjoying the layout of the world. I can see how it would be annoying to some people though.

What I REALLY like about DK64 though is the sheer amount of collectibles. I mean, there are a LOT. 201 Golden Bananas, 3,500 regular bananas, 40 blueprints, and dozens of others including Crowns, Keys and Fairies. No matter where you went there was always something to find, and the worlds never felt empty or dry because of that. It also prolonged the game for completionists such as myself... which isn't a bad thing. That's just more game to enjoy.

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Re: Donkey Kong 64 - collectables vs. your opinion (please vote and discuss)

Postby Rueckkoppler » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:13 pm

Spydr Webz wrote:I was never bothered by the collectibles in DK64. Even when I'd pass by something that I couldn't interact with because I wasn't the right character, I didn't mind, probably because I was never in a rush and I liked taking my time with the game, listening to the music and enjoying the layout of the world. I can see how it would be annoying to some people though.

What I REALLY like about DK64 though is the sheer amount of collectibles. I mean, there are a LOT. 201 Golden Bananas, 3,500 regular bananas, 40 blueprints, and dozens of others including Crowns, Keys and Fairies. No matter where you went there was always something to find, and the worlds never felt empty or dry because of that. It also prolonged the game for completionists such as myself... which isn't a bad thing. That's just more game to enjoy.


I don't know, the worlds had some nice themes and awesome music, but there wasn't really "life" as we know it from the Banjo games in there. You almost always talked to the same characters (and there were only a few), while these conversations never ever went beyond basic gameplay-instructions. I missed the little stories all the characters in the Banjo games had, which made the worlds feel pretty stale (for me at least).


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