Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

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Yavga
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:46 pm

I can kind of agree on the sentiment of that post that was over at the Kickstarter. But I don't really feel betrayed by any company at all, I was never a blockbuster gamer anyway. I notice I keep returning to Nintendo games, sandbox games and platformers mostly. I'm happy that most of you can still put your dissapointments aside though and enjoy the game regardless even if you are slightly dissapointed.

Platformers were declining but I'm so happy one is returning at last. I will look at the love that was put in this game in every detail whether it is Grant & Co's awesome score or the colorful cast of characters and environments. Not to mention the secrets, tongue-in-cheek jokes, gibberish! I mean BoTW was awesome but I think I will enjoy this game even more. These developers have an awesome way of creating the perfect game experience for me that has even more magic than AAA Nintendo games at times.

It's saddening to see that these experiences would have to be tainted for some because of some minor miscommunication over a maybe somewhat clumsy business decision or whatever it was... whatever it was it was their decision.
And it is being made overcomplicated. It is being used as ammunition for some of these resentful people that go way beyond voicing their opinion or showing their dissapointment.

How can anyone justify boycotting a game over this in the name of good willed people? cupcake that guy that was here earlier preaching his poo-poo, I'm talking to you Opinionwhatever. Please stay the cupcake away, far far away. Good riddance.

Playtonic, they are not in any kind of way deserving of the backlash they get over this. That is something which truly hurts me. And I can imagine it is not really something Playtonic was anticipating for neither :/

Playtonic, I will play your game and be sure to let you know how much I enjoyed it without letting any of this stand in its way.

That doesn't mean I won't understand the valid criticism that was voiced here. Playtonic, I hope you will follow up in whatever way. Just a "sorry people misunderstood us" suffices for me.

But please keep the good people without any ill intent in mind that are concerned over this. I have faith in you and your future titles.

Good luck :)
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Pgcrooner
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Pgcrooner » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:14 pm

GeneralWalnut wrote:
Pgcrooner wrote:
An interesting observation!

-It kind of comes back to the whole "freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences" arguement. They weren't silencing his views but rather acting accordingly to the things he said. Unfortunately that's also a sword that cuts both ways, nobody here is "silencing" playtonic's views per se (although some might) but the buyers make the choice to voice their disappointment AND as a consequence of Playtonic'a decision (whether you agree or not) they may lose some business as a result.


Oh believe me, I agree 100% that free speech isn't speech free of consequence. I'm just saying that the overwhelming suggestion by the people arguing against this change is that because the racially charged views expressed didn't have anything to do with Yooka-Laylee that there should be no consequences, and that his removal is silencing views different than theirs. I also, as I've indicated, don't think the majority of the people arguing that actually care about free speech or the principle they are arguing, and have been pretty transparent about having views contradict.

I think they're just mad people people are calling jontron racist because they agree with him and are taking it as people indirectly calling them racist. Which I mean, call a rock a rock and all that.


Pgcrooner wrote:-If they meet both parties halfway, I'd certainly be satisfied. I'm sure many of the people complaining would be too.

Though not all (you can't please everyone)

But you CAN choose the most amicable route.

I also should note In case I haven't made it obvious that I still support the game.


The problem is, when the two sides you have are "people are equal" and "people are not equal" that meeting in the middle only ever benefits those arguing inequality, and hurts those who they would seek to oppress. Taking the middle ground in instances like that, historically, of what lead to awful things like the 3/5 compromise.

Obviously this situation is far less important than that, but still acknowledging "people are not equal" as a "side" validates that view in a way it doesn't deserve and that can only cause harm. There is time for compromise but not when it leads to tolerating hateful rhetoric.

And oh yeah I'm only responding now because you seem like you are one of the few actually open to a real discussion. I know I've been prickly at times but that's just my feeling on this whole thing, nothing at you specifically (if that wasn't clear I apologize).


I understand. :)

Just gauging people's thoughts.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Rueckkoppler » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:19 pm

Yavga wrote:I can kind of agree on the sentiment of that post that was over at the Kickstarter.
But I don't really feel betrayed by any company at all, I was never a blockbuster gamer anyway. I notice I keep returning to Nintendo games, sandbox games and platformers mostly. I'm happy that most of you can still put your dissapointments aside though and enjoy the game regardless even if you are slightly dissapointed.

Platformers were declining but I'm so happy one is returning at last. I will look at the love that was put in this game in every detail whether it is Grant & Co's awesome score or the colorful cast of characters and environments. Not to mention the secrets, tongue-in-cheek jokes, gibberish! I mean BoTW was awesome but I think I will enjoy this game even more. These developers have an awesome way of creating the perfect game experience for me that has even more magic than AAA Nintendo games at times.

It's saddening to see that these experiences would have to be tainted for some because of some minor miscommunication over a maybe somewhat clumsy business decision or whatever it was... whatever it was it was their decision.
And it is being made overcomplicated. It is being used as ammunition for some of these resentful people that go way beyond voicing their opinion or showing their dissapointment.

How can anyone justify boycotting a game over this in the name of good willed people? cupcake that guy that was here earlier preaching his poo-poo, I'm talking to you Opinionwhatever. Please stay the cupcake away, far far away. Good riddance.

Playtonic, they are not in any kind of way deserving of the backlash they get over this. That is something which truly hurts me. And I can imagine it is not really something Playtonic was anticipating for neither :/

Playtonic, I will play your game and be sure to let you know how much I enjoyed it without letting any of this stand in its way.

That doesn't mean I won't understand the valid criticism that was voiced here. Playtonic, I hope you will follow up in whatever way. Just a "sorry people misunderstood us" suffices for me.


But please keep the good people without any ill intent in mind that are concerned over this. I have faith in you and your future titles.

Good luck :)


If I had the "diverse opinion" to lock this thread, I'd lock it right now (don't worry, free-speech-warriors: I don't believe that would be a right thing to do).

You summed up nicely why there's reason to be excited about this game and why it's going to be a success. There's so much quality to it and care put in it, that it's impossible to be undermined by a completely exaggerated sh*tstorm like this one. Screw the noisemakers that feel offended by a company positioning itself against white supremacists (and their stupid claim of a general threat against white people through whole groups of other ethnic origins). It doesn't matter what JonTron truly thinks, it matters what he said and that people take this as gossip because they're either big fans, alt-rights, conservatives (but easily offended) or all of this together.

I wrote that on Twitter in response to Josh Thomas (the guy who runs TheBitblock and regularly blows out that he believes in a big threat against the white species) and I cannot imagine anyone convincing me of something else:

Image

It's the idiots we're supposed to go after, not the ethnics. And that includes all people, no matter of colour, religious believes and origins.
Last edited by Rueckkoppler on Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby PurpleFyrus » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:34 pm

Wowzers, the amount of people who haven't done their research is mind boggling. It's like they think JonTron is some kind of Racist! Lol

I bet none of them actually listened to either of Sargon's guest stream (/w JonTron) or the vs Destiny debate, and just read some article at a slanderous news site like Neogaf, Kotaku or Forbes.

Wake up Sheeple!

The people who are outraged are upset because of the injustice being inflicted upon JonTron for backlash he's receiving due to a heinous Slander campaign. Sure JonTron said some things that may have seemed controversial, BUT! they were all based on data and studies! If those studies were wrong then the fault lies with the researchers, not JonTron. Yet plenty of articles write what they want because they just want to get hits, they don't care about the truth.

For those who don't get why it's such a big deal, for me anyways, I loved the original Banjo Games. I then came to love JonTron due to the shared Love for these games we have. Many other audience members STRONGLY FEEL like JonTron being in this game is that extra special touch to send it home because of the strong connection with JonTron and Banjo. If you don't get it, you probably never will, and thats ok, you don't need to understand other people's love for a game and association with JonTron. But when you try to write it off as:

"Whats the big deal, it's just 1 voice line"

You my friend, do not understand how associated nostalgia and community love works.

This dropping of JonTron leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because POLITICS and SLANDER campaigns have come into my one true safe place (lol), where I retreat to, in order to escape the everyday Politics of life, and they screw it up.

This is not what I wanted when I backed this game. If playtonics is going to discriminate against people because of what somebody else said about JonTron, (but isn't willing to do the research themselves) then I am not willing to support a company that is that LAZY.

Hopefully they retract their statement and we can just be done with this, I am hoping.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yoshi » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:41 pm

Well, when talking about "middle ground" it would of course be crazy to find a middle ground in the way of literally taking the mean of the opinion "blacks are genetically predetermined to become criminals" and "for all relevant (intellectual and behavioural) accounts, there exists no indication of a significant genetical difference between what some people call human races" doesn't make any sense and could only end up in racist viewpoints being said middle ground. What I feel people should clamor for is actual conversation instead of warlines. It is important to identify the reasons people cling to such ludicrous ideas and to fight the reasons for racist ideas being adopted. It is no use to vilify people over this, because this just leads to situations like the one at hand, which benefits no one (except maybe people who want to harm 3D platformers). Instead one must find the right talking points, the relevant topics to make people reconsider their stance. Of course, not all right extremists can be convinced, but it is totally worth it to try to convince those that are not rooted in such thought, but that have just adopted it uncritically. Racist ideas should be combatted, no question here, but it stands to question if aggression and twitter-stalking, as well as making up allegations (as in Mark's case) is helping anyone.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Rueckkoppler » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:47 pm

PurpleFyrus wrote:
Wowzers, the amount of people who haven't done their research is mind boggling. It's like they think JonTron is some kind of Racist! Lol

I bet none of them actually listened to either of Sargon's guest stream (/w JonTron) or the vs Destiny debate, and just read some article at a slanderous news site like Neogaf, Kotaku or Forbes.

Wake up Sheeple!
The people who are outraged are upset because of the injustice being inflicted upon JonTron for backlash he's receiving due to a heinous Slander campaign. Sure JonTron said some things that may have seemed controversial, BUT! they were all based on data and studies! If those studies were wrong then the fault lies with the researchers, not JonTron. Yet plenty of articles write what they want because they just want to get hits, they don't care about the truth.

For those who don't get why it's such a big deal, for me anyways, I loved the original Banjo Games. I then came to love JonTron due to the shared Love for these games we have. Many other audience members STRONGLY FEEL like JonTron being in this game is that extra special touch to send it home because of the strong connection with JonTron and Banjo. If you don't get it, you probably never will, and thats ok, you don't need to understand other people's love for a game and association with JonTron.
But when you try to write it off as:

"Whats the big deal, it's just 1 voice line"

You my friend, do not understand how associated nostalgia and community love works.

This dropping of JonTron leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because POLITICS and SLANDER campaigns have come into my one true safe place (lol), where I retreat to, in order to escape the everyday Politics of life, and they screw it up.

This is not what I wanted when I backed this game. If playtonics is going to discriminate against people because of what somebody else said about JonTron, (but isn't willing to do the research themselves) then I am not willing to support a company that is that LAZY.

Hopefully they retract their statement and we can just be done with this, I am hoping.


You're referring to this article, right?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 997c1dd266

Yes, I believe that it's entirely possible that this statistic is indeed legit. Shocked? But did anybody for once think further and try to understand how this statistic came to be? What long-term circumstances led to these results? Are you also the kind of guy who never questions why some people in our society turn mad and go on a killing spree? Aren't we all born equal? Aren't we shaped by the environment we grow up in? Think. Further. We are trapped in a freaking vicious circle exactly because of these things and it's very alarming that people relax on the surface of these problems and lazily, ignorantly suggest steamroller tactics instead of exploring the actual origins of these problems:

- ISIS is threatening us? Drive a wedge between Westerners and Muslims! Don't care whether you give the rest of them a reason to join these extremists idiots because they got no one else.

- Immigration takes over? Lock them in their war-infested countries and don't even think about eliminating the reasons for their escapes.

- Feeling misunderstood? Show ignorance, lot's of ignorance. Get to one side and throw everyone disagreeing with your disrespectful attitude to the opposing side. Build a group that way and develop an "us against them" mentality. Never, ever talk in-depth about actual solutions, just express your hate and disrespect. Oh, and develop a set of words that helps putting anyone you disagree with in a category; like "social justice warriors", "liberals" and "fake news". Repeat these words again and again until your followers learn and use them naturally whenever they feel uncomfortable


I love JonTron's videos, I am indeed liking this guy, but his statements threw me off and showed me that also a guy like him can give in to the developments I explained above. I feel his deep connection with old Rareware and love how he nailed his feelings in his videos. And him being in Yooka-Laylee made me very happy at first - this idea sounded like a beautiful conclusion after waiting so long (basically together) for a new game like the ones we fell in love with.

No, I don't think he's racist, but he is misinformed and completely steering in a direction that's leading to nothing good. It's not necessarily a matter of being racist or not, it's a matter of being (willing to get) informed. Developing deep thoughts and always considering why and how developments took place. It's about being entitled to actual solutions, even if it requires more effort than sending out hate and lazily written decrees.
Last edited by Rueckkoppler on Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 21 times in total.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby rocho » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:55 pm

Pgcrooner wrote:
rocho wrote:For all I know if people still want to listen to Jon's voice they should just not update their game?

I had a dream last night that I was playing the game and the part that Jon's character talked came with a black screen and a message saying

"This voice acting has been removed from the game please update your game"

I bet there will be some youtube video in the future showing the voice if that ever happens.


The only problem with that is I think you would eventually need to update the game for any DLC or extras. Which would then remove the voice for those who want to hear it.


I understand that.

I just don't recall playing Banjo-Kazooie and looking for a certain character and just talk to it for hours and hours.

I mean probably this character will only appear once and then you can update the game to enjoy everything else it has to offer. :)

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:05 pm

PurpleFyrus wrote:Wowzers, the amount of people who haven't done their research is mind boggling. It's like they think JonTron is some kind of Racist! Lol

I bet none of them actually listened to either of Sargon's guest stream (/w JonTron) or the vs Destiny debate, and just read some article at a slanderous news site like Neogaf, Kotaku or Forbes.

Wake up Sheeple!

The people who are outraged are upset because of the injustice being inflicted upon JonTron for backlash he's receiving due to a heinous Slander campaign. Sure JonTron said some things that may have seemed controversial, BUT! they were all based on data and studies! If those studies were wrong then the fault lies with the researchers, not JonTron. Yet plenty of articles write what they want because they just want to get hits, they don't care about the truth.

For those who don't get why it's such a big deal, for me anyways, I loved the original Banjo Games. I then came to love JonTron due to the shared Love for these games we have. Many other audience members STRONGLY FEEL like JonTron being in this game is that extra special touch to send it home because of the strong connection with JonTron and Banjo. If you don't get it, you probably never will, and thats ok, you don't need to understand other people's love for a game and association with JonTron. But when you try to write it off as:

"Whats the big deal, it's just 1 voice line"

You my friend, do not understand how associated nostalgia and community love works.

This dropping of JonTron leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because POLITICS and SLANDER campaigns have come into my one true safe place (lol), where I retreat to, in order to escape the everyday Politics of life, and they screw it up.

This is not what I wanted when I backed this game. If playtonics is going to discriminate against people because of what somebody else said about JonTron, (but isn't willing to do the research themselves) then I am not willing to support a company that is that LAZY.

Hopefully they retract their statement and we can just be done with this, I am hoping.


Not wanting to parade all over this but I am able to pull 16 studies out of my ass that say the opposite and then 16 others that speak for it. Pure statistical data that doesn't look at the underlaying issues. That's hardly convincing.

I don't neccesary want to bring in autism all the time but that's just a topic I'm comfortable with! hear me out: You should look up the discussion and studies people bring up about how vaccinations somehow are a culprit of creating autistic people. Studies are political motivated as well, surprise surprise!
Then the discussion continues debating what study is the most reliable and yadayada. It's a never ending cycle as well.

Anyway. Jontron is alright. He never meant any harm I can see as much. If I would be in his shoes I'd probably make the same mistake at some point being myself because even I sometimes spout nonsense about black people being the cause of certain things... but when I think further about it... no, I am unable to support that thought because it is unrealistic and oversimplified to blame black people. I mean... didn't we take all their land and stuff and with it all their values and stuff as well in a large part of the world? Whatever the case our generation didn't have to do anything with that but still... we reap what we sow (is that right?)

Long story short, you can't blame Playtonic of all that poo-poo. They either did what was necessary in their eyes or took the easy way out. Blame the people responsible for either pressuring Playtonic into this or blame Jontron for not thinking beforehand of the consequences this could have for other people involved with him.

Jontron can still be a good guy for all I care. It was just unfortunate, he said as much.

Doesn't justify hate and boycotting a small video game company insecure about what was right. They had to hurt either side and they those the one that wouldn't hurt their business.

Being butthurt over it is not Playtonic's problem and they do not deserve the consequences of Jontrons clumsiness.
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby PurpleFyrus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:33 am

While you may argue that it isn't Playtonic's fault, but rather those who pressured them into dropping JonTron, they did still perform the act of dropping Jon.

I'm not saying we need to witch hunt for those people in order to shift the blame, but the fact that Playtonics "listened" to who told them the info, and "caved" makes them part of the problem.

I still honestly don't have any hate towards Playtonics, but I sure as hell don't want to play the game anymore due to the sour taste that this whole debacle has left in my mouth. Not saying everyone else has to, but I ain't buying the game, I play games to get AWAY from politics, and this game in a sense has been tainted from my perspective.

But hey, that's just my perspective, me voicing my opinion. I ain't hurting anyone, so I sure as hell ain't gonna apologize for taking a stance.

(also, if you could provide those 16 sources I'd be delighted to read into them, but if you don't I understand you don't want to put forth any effort to back up your claims)

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:16 am

PurpleFyrus wrote:While you may argue that it isn't Playtonic's fault, but rather those who pressured them into dropping JonTron, they did still perform the act of dropping Jon.

I'm not saying we need to witch hunt for those people in order to shift the blame, but the fact that Playtonics "listened" to who told them the info, and "caved" makes them part of the problem.

I still honestly don't have any hate towards Playtonics, but I sure as hell don't want to play the game anymore due to the sour taste that this whole debacle has left in my mouth. Not saying everyone else has to, but I ain't buying the game, I play games to get AWAY from politics, and this game in a sense has been tainted from my perspective.

But hey, that's just my perspective, me voicing my opinion. I ain't hurting anyone, so I sure as hell ain't gonna apologize for taking a stance.

(also, if you could provide those 16 sources I'd be delighted to read into them, but if you don't I understand you don't want to put forth any effort to back up your claims)


Just woke up, while I might go ahead and prove my point by finding these articles against each other I don't know whether it's worth it to me to justify that point exactly, I'd have to do some digging to prove a point, it's time consuming and perhaps rather unneccesary for getting the point accross.

I do like to re-state that statistics as pure data don't tell a story, underlying issues do. I do like to tell you that I'm Dutch as well and that I'm perfectly aware of how Wilder's got his votes this year (he didn't win and isn't even in the ruling party). So I'm actually more informed than the random JonTron viewer who thinks he knows politics by watching a video about a guy (Wilders is the guy JonTron supports)

He's a fear-mongerer and educated people don't take his viewpoints seriously. His entire political campaign was written on 1 piece of paper (no joke). He did not give solutions to problems, he just magnified 1 specific problem. He doesn't know what to do with health and education, the economy and more but just waggles on trying to make people scared without any kind of plan how to help this country. We call
These kind of people populists, as they manage to steer up a lot of angry people only because of either their charms or their conviction without looking at anything else.

He just addresses peoples fear and anger.
It's a political tactic.

Just like Erdogan (Turkish Dictator), unless you'd think he's a totally decent guy by allowing people to vote for his ability for even more power saying a no vote equals being a terrorist.
Last edited by Yavga on Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:30 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Taylor » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:19 am

This topic has totally derailed from anything to do about Yooka-Laylee, or even JonTron. Not to mention that JonTron no longer has anything to do with the final game regardless. For these reasons, I am moving this thread to the Community Discussion subforum.
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby PurpleFyrus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:25 am

bwh80 wrote:Answer me this:

What part of his statement that foreigners "dilute the gene pool" NOT racist?



See, it's people like you who are the problem.

He never said "dilute the gene pool"

He was talking about Cultural Values, not genes, Values.
With massive immigration that isn't regulated to the extent of immigrants
being integrated into the standing culture, we change.

His argument is that it could be for the worse.

Also, it was way longer than 2 hours. I don't think you watched the right video lol.

Here are them if you need to educate yourself:

1st one where he first came out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFXpXVZ8ho&t=9184s
2nd one where he and other Tuber's elaborated more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1p0apfSCIU
3rd one where Destiny cornered him into saying things that were easily misconstrued: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM&t=1532s

Also, in case you think that Destiny is actually a pretty good guy, and would never have mal-intent of putting JonTron in a different light, here's a video showing how Destiny condones Pedophilia, Incest, and almost murdered someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0uv_VEfIv0&feature=youtu.be
He also said a really racist remark against Japan, way more outright and racially discriminatory.

And finally, here is JonTron with his additional statement on what he really was trying to say, but got pushed into a different line of questioning because he wasn't prepared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcz5cgUbbA

He doesn't attack ANY RACE solely based on their skin tone and blood heritage alone,
He only makes statements (that are not malicious) about the differences in cultures of different societies and how they have certain attributes and norms.

bwh80 wrote:There is no "heinous slander campaign," the words being reported are the words that came from Jon's OWN mouth.


At no point does Jon every whole heartedly say: "I believe Exhibit A Race is better than Exhibit B Race" and yet that is exactly what websites like The Verge, Kotaku, NeoGaf, Wired and Washington Post are writing.

If you really want to make any refutation, you need to watch ALL of the videos, otherwise you have no context, and if you just go off of 1 video like the debate between JonTron and Destiny, then you really are narrow minded.

I hope you can open your eyes and see the Truth, but if you want to be Hoodwinked by the media, whatever, I honestly don't care about another random person on the internet's opinion.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby PurpleFyrus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:27 am

Taylor wrote:This topic has totally derailed from anything to do about Yooka-Laylee, or even JonTron. Not to mention that JonTron no longer has anything to do with the final game regardless. For these reasons, I am moving this thread to the Community Discussion subforum.


Well seeing as they Pulled Jon from the game, of course it's not longer Relevant to the game.

Would have been Relevant a week ago though

So if Jon gets put back in the game, I will love the moment you have to move it back to the Yooka-Laylee forums

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Re: What might happen to Playtonic if Yooka-Laylee flops...

Postby PurpleFyrus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:52 am

bwh80 wrote:
sourrags wrote:I was going to buy it but they are against free speech


The devs are not against free-speech, they are against HATE-speech. Slight difference. ;)


Then they should speak out against people who spout HATE-speech, not other people who are against HATE-speech lol
Example: https://youtu.be/yVcz5cgUbbA?t=1m36s

As always, Do your research, before you besmirch!

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Re: What might happen to Playtonic if Yooka-Laylee flops...

Postby Cube » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:10 am

sourrags wrote:I was going to buy it but they are against free speech


Just curious, what country are you from? I just want to ask in case free speech means something different where you are compared to America or the UK.

In terms of free speech in America and the UK, PlayTonic have done absolutely nothing against it.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby ShanPen » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:05 am

Yavga wrote: Especially if they WERE pressured into it. But we're hanging on assumptions now.


I don’t think they are "pandering” to some boogeymen SJWs that are apparently the cause of all woes. Companies know the benefits of being more diverse - it essentially gets them a bigger audience to potentially consume their product, so they are in no way pandering to requests for cultural diversity, they are actually openly embracing it because they know it is good business sense (and if it aligns with their morals too, that's an added bonus for them). Therefore if someone like JonTron who people associate with the game get themselves into controversy by saying things that appear not to align with that diversity, a company will take action to distance themselves from that person to protect their reputation.

I’m trying to understand the point of view of people here who are so outraged by this shift to diversity, and it seems like there is a lot of fear that it means “everyone hates white men”, or that if you allow diversity, white males will disappear into oblivion, – that you will all be replaced with black lesbian transwomen in vegan wheelchairs or something like that. That’s just not going to happen, companies aren’t that stupid. They have to get the right balance of diversity to maximise their audience reach, but if they start going too far in the other direction and making all their characters black lesbian transwomen in wheelchairs, there aren’t enough people fitting that description in real life to keep them in business, no matter how much tumblr kids whinge if every single character isn’t that “diverse”. So fear not, white guys - media and companies still need your money; you aren’t going to go extinct. They just want you to share the limelight a bit so they can attract money from other types of people, too.

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bjaxx87
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby bjaxx87 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:15 am

Wow, it's so sad to see the shitstorm going on in social media when the game is so close to release... :/ People sure like to overreact!

I mean..., when I read about Playtonic's decision I didn't appreciate it (I like Jontron, I enjoy his content and I think he did a lot to keep the "old Rare" fanbase alive) but I accepted it. I won't discuss if Jon's comments were hate speech or not because we have had enough of that and it's leading nowhere.

After that minor change Yooka-Laylee still is the game I have been waiting for and it looks fantastic, so I won't let a (in my opinion) bad business decision affect my love for it. Since Jon's voice still is in the initial release we can still decide to keep it - and knowing the internet it won't be long before patches/guides pop up which will make it possible to keep his voice and stay up to date (at least on PC).

I'm not sure how Playtonic should react to all the hate they are receiving now but I think they should make some kind of statement. Backpedaling sure would be unprofessional and defending their decision won't calm the masses - but completely ignoring them won't help here. I hope they acknowledge the anger felt in the fanbase and manage to (at least slightly) soothe things.

I'm just looking forward to this game and don't want hate comments below every social media post so close to release! I miss the days when all you found there was love and anticipation.

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Yavga
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:52 am

Well that's just dandy. It seems that after we hit at least 400 replies things are finally starting to settle down.

I think every possible viewpoint whether it is political, ethical of just plain logic had been brought up at least 10 times now so lets use this thread as some sort of index and create a Q&A topic referring to this thread to see if your concern has already been discussed (it was most probably) so it can be archived for use in all future conflicts.

Now we can all go forward and enjoy the game to our heart's content!

(Unless you ... please use index)
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Jellyfunk
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Jellyfunk » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:25 pm

There are too many people attacking thoughts and not enough people attacking actions.

Opinions can change, but actions are forever. All JonTron stated were unpopular opinions.

Jontron didn't deserve this.

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twinspectre
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby twinspectre » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:55 pm

Yoshi wrote:
twinspectre wrote:maybe Playtonic won't refund because they realise that the project worked thanks to the "racist" because without them Yooka laylee would never happend, and now they realise how the f****d up and they want to block people on twitter, devs putting a lock so other people that are not follower won't see their tweet all they did was spitting in the face to their fans that have different point of view and I hope the "racist" are the majority, so Playtonic should apologise for disrespecting gamers with a different point of view,
It is not very likely that far-right people are the majorit of people waiting for Yooka-Laylee. Since there is nothing inherently racist about Banjo, I'd assume the standard ~15% of the audience will be far-right people.

because We are not Animals, we are Human
All humans are animals.

with an opinion too and as such we need to be respected
Disrespecting a certain point of view does not mean disrespecting the whole human. I know there are people who conflate the whole being with their viewpoint, if it is of a specific kind (e.g. racist viewpoints), but this is not necessarily the case. However, even though it might have been a better choice had Playtonic not said anything about the initial uproar and just kept everything as it was (which I would have preferred, because the few people who knew that Jafri is a racist and cared enough for that to boycott Yooka-Laylee would have probably been miniscule), I think it is their right to ensure that people know they do not respect or share racist view points. That does not mean that people with racist viewpoints are devealued as humans alltogether, it is just that these viewpoints are valuated as what they are: vile.

Diversity my butt Playtonic, Diversity works IF YOU'RE Left wing
It largly depends on what you call diversity. Of course, adding people who are suppressing other people and clamoring for a limitation of ethnical diversity to a group that does not contain people of those opinions increases the diversity of mindsets, but it stands to question if this does not lead to a reduction of diversity in the long run, should those ideas catch on within a large enough subgroup of the original group. I believe, however, that when Playtonic said diversity, they were talking about ethnicities and racists do not form a unique ethnicity.


i'm a Human being not a Animal, if you feel an Animal this is up to You, I was born as Human Being.
can't wait for Yooka Laylee (PS4) :geek: :D :lol:


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