Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

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Yavga
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:48 pm

Rueckkoppler wrote:
Pgcrooner wrote:
Rueckkoppler wrote:
There's probably different groups of people:

- The ones that absolutely share the views in the way he expressed them (but probably didn't mean himself?
I'm still confused because I thought he's a great guy), but spoken words are spoken

- The conservative (but not racist people) that misinterpreted Playtonics action as Alph said above and feel offended

- Fans that like his art so much that they feel pity for all the backlash, so they try to support him 100%


-I would also add people who are tired of politics in general too.
After all they could have disavowed Jontron without removing him or being quiet about the removal. The gesture is (metaphorically) loud and political.

-Gamers see companies cave to political pressure and make statements more and more frequently. Playtonic as a company shouldn't HAVE to say they are against this.


Signing that. Is there much evidence that they got pressured into making that statement though? I really can see how that actions just fits their mindset anyway. I myself find certain developments all over the world pretty scary right now. Maybe they just decided to not care about the potential backlash?


I once read a thing about how we are living in the most peaceful era ever, but that eventually war is inevitable as conflict is human second nature. Murphy's law also seems to be in motion lately. I actually kind of blame the internet for the way things appear to be so devided. Things that happen all over the world are so easily accessible all of a sudden. While that can be a good thing it also made a large gap and it also manages to find "flaws" (opinions) in other places and voice them to the masses.

So sometimes it seems like left is trying to stop a rolling boulder together because they believe it can be stopped as long as there are rules and regulations we abide to where right wants it to hit a wall and continue with what's left because we shouldn't try to fix things that aren't supposed to be fixed. (Opinion)

The boulder's current topic is complicated and diverse. We are about to lose another countries democracy, we're in an era where fear mongering in disguise reigns over common sense and actual facts. And then there's the climate that according to researchers is about to take its' toll in rapidly increasing magnitude.

Ultimately it comes down to whatever one thinks has priority in their life but there are so damn many people divided that you've got to keep them in check in a certain way.

That's why Playtonic developed this game, it's a political distraction to keep you occupied from all these bad things happening. I just realised all games are about politics.

Astonishing conclusion if I say so myself.
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:52 pm

For anyone wanting to see proof that NeoGaf is responsible for spamming Playtonic and T17 with their bullshit then please watch the video in my signature.

Still sad to see so many people voicing their opinions on what Playtonic has done and being accused of being racists or bigots.

I'm not leaving until Playtonic releases a new statement addressing this garbage, and if they don't I have no problem displaying a picture of my used copy of Y-L on every social media available.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Pgcrooner » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:55 pm

Yavga wrote:
Rueckkoppler wrote:
Pgcrooner wrote:
-I would also add people who are tired of politics in general too.
After all they could have disavowed Jontron without removing him or being quiet about the removal. The gesture is (metaphorically) loud and political.

-Gamers see companies cave to political pressure and make statements more and more frequently. Playtonic as a company shouldn't HAVE to say they are against this.


Signing that. Is there much evidence that they got pressured into making that statement though? I really can see how that actions just fits their mindset anyway. I myself find certain developments all over the world pretty scary right now. Maybe they just decided to not care about the potential backlash?


I once read a thing about how we are living in the most peaceful era ever, but that eventually war is inevitable as conflict is human second nature. Murphy's law also seems to be in motion lately. I actually kind of blame the internet for the way things appear to be so devided. Things that happen all over the world are so easily accessible all of a sudden. While that can be a good thing it also made a large gap and it also manages to find "flaws" (opinions) in other places and voice them to the masses.

So sometimes it seems like left is trying to stop a rolling boulder together because they believe it can be stopped as long as there are rules and regulations we abide to where right wants it to hit a wall and continue with what's left because we shouldn't try to fix things that aren't supposed to be fixed. (Opinion)

The boulder's current topic is complicated and diverse. We are about to lose another countries democracy, we're in an era where fear mongering in disguise reigns over common sense and actual facts. And then there's the climate that according to researchers is about to take its' toll in rapidly increasing magnitude.

Ultimately it comes down to whatever one thinks has priority in their life but there are so damn many people divided that you've got to keep them in check in a certain way.

That's why Playtonic developed this game, it's a political distraction to keep you occupied from all these bad things happening. I just realised all games are about politics.

Astonishing conclusion if I say so myself.


Nice analogy!

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Scrubber » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:00 pm

Piet wrote:Am I the only one around here who doesn't give a turd about JonTron or his voice acting?
There are more important matters surrounding YL atm, I think.

I also couldn't give a crap about him voicing a character. Makes no difference. I DO however give a crap about ptg getting involved with politics.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:03 pm

Scrubber wrote:
Piet wrote:Am I the only one around here who doesn't give a turd about JonTron or his voice acting?
There are more important matters surrounding YL atm, I think.

I also couldn't give a crap about him voicing a character. Makes no difference. I DO however give a crap about ptg getting involved with politics.



That's the thing people seem to fail to realize. Even if you're not a fan of JonTron you should be disgusted with seeing someone like Neo-RARE cave to political pressure when they made one of the biggest middle fingers to censorship in the game industry, that the world still unanimously praises to this day, aka Conker's Bad Fur Day.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Savage Rodent » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:26 pm

I believe there are a couple things here everyone can agree on.

1. Jon's choice of words were not the best for explaining his views. And if anyone knows all of the facts, they know he isn't a racist.

2. Playtonic could have avoided all of this drama by not removing Jon. They could have even covered themselves as well by saying they don't support his views and won't be doing anymore business with him in the future(it's almost the same thing as their current decision, but the backlash would have probably not been as bad).

There were many other ways for them to handle this situation and receive less backlash, but I can't help feel that they were pressured into making this decision, and NeoGaf probably had a lot, if not all to do with that.

I would like to believe everyone thinks politics in the game industry sucks, and it needs to disappear asap. I think the reaction people are having to Jon's removal is partially because they're fed up with politics and don't want to support companies that get influenced by it. Of course I think it stands to reason that people who support Playtonic in their decision either don't mind politics in the game industry or simply just don't care about the situation at all.

Yavga wrote:The boulder's current topic is complicated and diverse. We are about to lose another countries democracy, we're in an era where fear mongering in disguise reigns over common sense and actual facts. And then there's the climate that according to researchers is about to take its' toll in rapidly increasing magnitude.


Mentioning other political subjects in here probably isn't the best idea, just a thought.

We are in a dark age of easy communication and mass information. People need to keep themselves in check by not getting offended by every little thing someone says and not make stupid claims without not just one fact source, but several. But then again, what sources can you trust when some have agendas they want to push on to you and others that are looking for the clicks or funds.
Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:29 pm

Savage Rodent wrote:We are in a dark age of easy communication and mass information. People need to keep themselves in check by not getting offended by every little thing someone says and not make stupid claims without not just one fact source, but several. But then again, what sources can you trust when some have agendas they want to push on to you and others that are looking for the clicks or funds.


You are seriously my favorite person in this thread. I agree with literally everything you said in that post.

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I keep finding great comments about this situation.
Last edited by DiverseOpinions on Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:31 pm

Savage Rodent wrote:I believe there are a couple things here everyone can agree on.

1. Jon's choice of words were not the best for explaining his views. And if anyone knows all of the facts, they know he isn't a racist.

2. Playtonic could have avoided all of this drama by not removing Jon. They could have even covered themselves as well by saying they don't support his views and won't be doing anymore business with him in the future(it's almost the same thing as their current decision, but the backlash would have probably not been as bad).

There were many other ways for them to handle this situation and receive less backlash, but I can't help feel that they were pressured into making this decision, and NeoGaf probably had a lot, if not all to do with that.

I would like to believe everyone thinks politics in the game industry sucks, and it needs to disappear asap. I think the reaction people are having to Jon's removal is partially because they're fed up with politics and don't want to support companies that get influenced by it. Of course I think it stands to reason that people who support Playtonic in their decision either don't mind politics in the game industry or simply just don't care about the situation at all.

Yavga wrote:The boulder's current topic is complicated and diverse. We are about to lose another countries democracy, we're in an era where fear mongering in disguise reigns over common sense and actual facts. And then there's the climate that according to researchers is about to take its' toll in rapidly increasing magnitude.


Mentioning other political subjects in here probably isn't the best idea, just a thought.

We are in a dark age of easy communication and mass information. People need to keep themselves in check by not getting offended by every little thing someone says and not make stupid claims without not just one fact source, but several. But then again, what sources can you trust when some have agendas they want to push on to you and others that are looking for the clicks or funds.


"People need to keep themselves in check by not getting offended by every little thing someone says"

Playtonic and Jontron both already reached their conclusion so do you think it's strange I think this is kinda... ironic to say?

I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:38 pm

Yavga wrote:
Savage Rodent wrote:I believe there are a couple things here everyone can agree on.

1. Jon's choice of words were not the best for explaining his views. And if anyone knows all of the facts, they know he isn't a racist.

2. Playtonic could have avoided all of this drama by not removing Jon. They could have even covered themselves as well by saying they don't support his views and won't be doing anymore business with him in the future(it's almost the same thing as their current decision, but the backlash would have probably not been as bad).

There were many other ways for them to handle this situation and receive less backlash, but I can't help feel that they were pressured into making this decision, and NeoGaf probably had a lot, if not all to do with that.

I would like to believe everyone thinks politics in the game industry sucks, and it needs to disappear asap. I think the reaction people are having to Jon's removal is partially because they're fed up with politics and don't want to support companies that get influenced by it. Of course I think it stands to reason that people who support Playtonic in their decision either don't mind politics in the game industry or simply just don't care about the situation at all.

Yavga wrote:The boulder's current topic is complicated and diverse. We are about to lose another countries democracy, we're in an era where fear mongering in disguise reigns over common sense and actual facts. And then there's the climate that according to researchers is about to take its' toll in rapidly increasing magnitude.


Mentioning other political subjects in here probably isn't the best idea, just a thought.

We are in a dark age of easy communication and mass information. People need to keep themselves in check by not getting offended by every little thing someone says and not make stupid claims without not just one fact source, but several. But then again, what sources can you trust when some have agendas they want to push on to you and others that are looking for the clicks or funds.


"People need to keep themselves in check by not getting offended by every little thing someone says"

Playtonic and Jontron both already reached their conclusion so do you think it's strange I think this is kinda... ironic to say?

I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.


Almost as if they're not going to forget about what Playtonic and T17 are doing, are you worried that mentality is going to stick around by the release date?

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Savage Rodent » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:43 pm

Yavga wrote:I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.


What Jon said was a week before Playtonic made this decision. And he made a video clearing up his views 2 days before. So what's your point?
Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:47 pm

Savage Rodent wrote:
Yavga wrote:I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.


What Jon said was a week before Playtonic made this decision. And he made a video clearing up his views 2 days before. So what's your point?


He really won't have one. This guy loves doing mental gymnastics in forum posts just praying that anything he says will be seen as a valid point.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yavga » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:48 pm

Savage Rodent wrote:
Yavga wrote:I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.


What Jon said was a week before Playtonic made this decision. And he made a video clearing up his views 2 days before. So what's your point?


It's useless, we're just clashing opinions back and forth. it's getting deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. I'm ok, I just wish for it to stop and try to reach a conclusion to this never ending cycle. So... let's stop to agree that we're disagreeing and call it a day. That an idea?
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:50 pm

Yavga wrote:
Savage Rodent wrote:
Yavga wrote:I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.


What Jon said was a week before Playtonic made this decision. And he made a video clearing up his views 2 days before. So what's your point?


It's useless, we're just clashing opinions back and forth. it's getting deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. I'm ok, I just wish for it to stop and try to reach a conclusion to this never ending cycle. So... let's stop to agree that we're disagreeing and call it a day. That an idea?


Hey look, I was right.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Savage Rodent » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:52 pm

Yavga wrote:
Savage Rodent wrote:
Yavga wrote:I mean it's 2 days after and people are still butthurt and complaining to deaf ears.


What Jon said was a week before Playtonic made this decision. And he made a video clearing up his views 2 days before. So what's your point?


It's useless, we're just clashing opinions back and forth. it's getting deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. I'm ok, I just wish for it to stop and try to reach a conclusion to this never ending cycle. So... let's stop to agree that we're disagreeing and call it a day. That an idea?


I think many people would like these cycles to never pop up. I know I would. Why do you think some people are opposing this decision? It's because they keep popping up.
Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby ryanator008 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:54 pm

Yoshi wrote:
ryanator008 wrote:If his views are so fringe, then why are so many people defending him?
Everyone I disagree with is stupid or a cultist. Also they're all dudes, except the ones that aren't.

And you wonder why people are so upset about SJWs.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Scrubber » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:00 am

Savage Rodent wrote:I believe there are a couple things here everyone can agree on.

1. Jon's choice of words were not the best for explaining his views. And if anyone knows all of the facts, they know he isn't a racist.

2. Playtonic could have avoided all of this drama by not removing Jon. They could have even covered themselves as well by saying they don't support his views and won't be doing anymore business with him in the future(it's almost the same thing as their current decision, but the backlash would have probably not been as bad).

Playtonic could have avoided the drama by not including him in the first place. I know he is a huge fan of the originals but we have ALL seen that nuts and bolts video he made. Playtonic (previously the banjo team) MADE nuts and bolts and he tore that game a new arsehole and said a lot of negative things about it. Which went on to get several million views. Now why would they want a person who slated the crap out of thier previous game, in their new game?

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby ShanPen » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:01 am

ryanator008 wrote:
Yoshi wrote:
ryanator008 wrote:If his views are so fringe, then why are so many people defending him?
Everyone I disagree with is stupid or a cultist. Also they're all dudes, except the ones that aren't.

And you wonder why people are so upset about SJWs.


That is not a direct quote from Yoshi at all. You might have summed up Yoshi's argument as that, but using the forum's quote feature to make it look like Yoshi said those exact words is pretty poor form.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Alph » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:12 am

DiverseOpinions wrote:
Scrubber wrote:
Piet wrote:Am I the only one around here who doesn't give a turd about JonTron or his voice acting?
There are more important matters surrounding YL atm, I think.

I also couldn't give a crap about him voicing a character. Makes no difference. I DO however give a crap about ptg getting involved with politics.



That's the thing people seem to fail to realize. Even if you're not a fan of JonTron you should be disgusted with seeing someone like Neo-RARE cave to political pressure when they made one of the biggest middle fingers to censorship in the game industry, that the world still unanimously praises to this day, aka Conker's Bad Fur Day.


It has nothing to do with censorship or politics. It has to do with respecting the intrinsic equality of all human beings. Playtonic does not want to associate with someone who expresses racist and white supremecist views. They are not censoring those views, they are disassociating themselves from those views. There is a clear difference here.

As to the matter of refunds: Jontron had nothing to do with the original Yooka-Laylee campaign. No one is entitled to a refund because of this Jontron business. Yooka-Laylee is delivering on everything it promised in the campain, with the exception of the Wii U version, which they ARE offering refunds for. No one except Wii U pledgers are entitled to a refund.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:17 am

Scrubber wrote:
Savage Rodent wrote:I believe there are a couple things here everyone can agree on.

1. Jon's choice of words were not the best for explaining his views. And if anyone knows all of the facts, they know he isn't a racist.

2. Playtonic could have avoided all of this drama by not removing Jon. They could have even covered themselves as well by saying they don't support his views and won't be doing anymore business with him in the future(it's almost the same thing as their current decision, but the backlash would have probably not been as bad).

Playtonic could have avoided the drama by not including him in the first place. I know he is a huge fan of the originals but we have ALL seen that nuts and bolts video he made. Playtonic (previously the banjo team) MADE nuts and bolts and he tore that game a new arsehole and said a lot of negative things about it. Which went on to get several million views. Now why would they want a person who slated the crap out of thier previous game, in their new game?


Dude... Even Playtonic knows that Nuts and Bolts is terrible. I'm guessing you didn't know that Jon absolutely adores BK and has footage to back up his adoration of the franchise. We're talking about someone, that was actually personal friends with a couple of the developers at Playtonic, getting barred from the project for saying powerful statements in a controversial debate. Imagine if you were given a chance to do a voice in a spiritual successor to the game you grew up loving, then having all of that taken away because you chose to speak your opinion.

I guarantee none of the people calling others racists or bigots have even the slightest bit of confidence in themselves to do the same. It's much easier to stay silent on matters you don't agree or agree with, but we shouldn't condemn those that choose to do so.

Alph wrote:It has nothing to do with censorship or politics. It has to do with respecting the intrinsic equality of all human beings. Playtonic does not want to associate with someone who expresses racist and white supremecist views. They are not censoring those views, they are disassociating themselves from those views. There is a clear difference here.

As to the matter of refunds: Jontron had nothing to do with the original Yooka-Laylee campaign. No one is entitled to a refund because of this Jontron business. Yooka-Laylee is delivering on everything it promised in the campain, with the exception of the Wii U version, which they ARE offering refunds for. No one except Wii U pledgers are entitled to a refund.


I'm sick and tired of people only speaking about the semantics of free speech over the actual principle of free speech. Stop trying to undermine people that are fully aware that Playtonic was within their right to remove Jontron, the free speech argument is based solely on the principle of the matter. If the principals of free speech don't exist or apply to you, then I deeply apologize for whoever went out of their way to make you believe that mentality.

If they wanted to disassociate themselves they would've just made a statement saying they wouldn't do business with JonTron ever again and that they don't share the same political views. Instead they've made themselves a target by speaking with political action by removing him from the game.

So what you're saying is that Playtonic does not want to associate with someone that expresses racist and white supremacist views, but they are perfectly fine with taking the money of people that express racist and white supremacist views. That is legitimately what you are saying to me right now, sir.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Alph » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:38 am

DiverseOpinions wrote:I'm sick and tired of people only speaking about the semantics of free speech over the actual principle of free speech. Stop trying to undermine people that are fully aware that Playtonic was within their right to remove Jontron, the free speech argument is based solely on the principle of the matter. If the principals of free speech don't exist or apply to you, then I deeply apologize for whoever went out of their way to make you believe that mentality.

If they wanted to disassociate themselves they would've just made a statement saying they wouldn't do business with JonTron ever again and that they don't share the same political views. Instead they've made themselves a target by speaking with political action by removing him from the game.




As I said, this has nothing to do with censorship, it has nothing to do with free speech.


What's the difference between Playtonic never collaborating with Jontron again and them not collaborating with him in the final version of Yooka-Laylee? The end result is just that Jontron's involvement is excluded from one extra game. It's not some huge political action, it's just them releasing a product without Jontron in it.


DiverseOpinions wrote:So what you're saying is that Playtonic does not want to associate with someone that expresses racist and white supremacist views, but they are perfectly fine with taking the money of people that express racist and white supremacist views. That is legitimately what you are saying to me right now, sir.


Taking money from hundreds of random people isn't the same as personally collaborating with a specific individual on a project. I don't know why you are equating the two. The degree of association is nowhere near the same.


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