DLC = Sequel Theory

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
Octopeart
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DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Octopeart » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:28 pm

With the recent announcement of Hollow Knight: Silksong as a "DLC-turned-full-sequel," does anyone else think it's possible that Playtonic might be doing the same with a potential Tooka-Laylee? From the Developer Commentary videos, they all seem very cognizant and forward about the shortcomings of Yooka-Laylee, so that makes me wonder: If the DLC planned for Y-L is a new world, would it seem strange to have a new, perfectly-polished world addressing some of the common issues (Kartos, Rextro, Flappy Flight, etc.) alongside the other worlds in the original game, or is it possible that any DLC will just be moved to a second, more realized and coherent game? Knowing Playtonic, this would be discounted for Kickstarter Backers in some way. The reception to Silksong seems overwhelmingly positive, and I would be ecstatic if Playtonic were to announce that Tooka-Laylee is the next big thing after the release of the 64-bit tonic. Assuming they use Unity for a sequel, I think their 64-bit methodology could even be applied to a future game.

What do you all think?

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Taylor
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Taylor » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:22 pm

I think this is very unlikely. We know Playtonic is working on a second game, which might be sequel to Yooka-Laylee, but the DLC is definitely separate to that project.

The upcoming DLC is going to be free to all backers. It would be a disaster for a business to spend 2+ years on a full game just to give it away for free to their primary audience. On the simple fact that it would make no marketable sense at all, I can say pretty confidently that the DLC will not be very expansive -- and definitely not a whole new game.

Edit: Although, just as I posted this, I thought that the possibility of them releasing some sort of demo of their next game via the DLC is maybe possible -- but still a stretch. It would actually save them time because they'd just be using assets from the upcoming title they've been working on, instead of working on assets for both a new game and a DLC simultaneously.

E.g. if they're working on a Yooka-Laylee Kart Racer, you could use all those assets to put some sort of racing "mini-game" into Yooka-Laylee.

But I still think the most likely outcome is a pretty basic DLC, maybe something to do with the Pirate Treasure.
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Octopeart
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Octopeart » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:07 pm

Taylor, you make some great points!

Yes, of course what I said only makes any sense if the next game is a sequel to Yooka-Laylee. It might not be the best assumption, but I do think that's at least one of the games they're working on. (At least, I selfishly hope so!)

Regardless of the next games, DLC, etc., I think my overall point is that the Kickstarter goals can/should be a bit less rigid than some fans might like, provided the reason for not meeting them is good enough. In the case of Silksong, I don't think anyone minds that it's not the DLC they expected or that they don't have a release date, since the actual product appears good to enough to make those questions not matter that much. In this context, this could look like discounting the DLC-quel instead of giving it to Backers entirely for free. I for one would be happy with a small discount on a future game if it built on the foundation set by Y-L.

Theorizing about this would certainly be a bit easier if we had any idea how the team is currently delegating things. As far as I've read, we know the team has grown since Y-L, but also that there are separate teams working on different things at the moment. I think it would be weird to have a team potentially even smaller than the original Y-L team working on DLC while another team might be working on a proper Y-L sequel, and yet another may be working on Yooka-Laylee Kart Racing or something. If they split things up too much just to be working on more things I worry the quality of each one would suffer, as well as each one taking more time to complete. My point on this is that I hope that they are making the game they feel needs to be made, rather than half-heartedly fulfilling a Kickstarter promise from 4 years ago.

At this point, I'd personally rather them skip Y-L DLC and just incorporate any future ideas they have for the series in a sequel comparable to how Banjo-Tooie built on Banjo-Kazooie. It might be a bit narrow-minded, but I think the only DLC that really makes sense for Y-L is something like an extra world or purely cosmetic things like the 64-bit tonic, maybe some costumes like Mario Odyssey, cheat codes, etc. I think anything beyond that involving new moves or bigger design changes would look strange when tacked on to the original game, could even affect how the original game plays, and would be better suited for a sequel.

Beyond all of this, I am just excited to see what they reveal next!

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Taylor
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Taylor » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:31 pm

Octopeart wrote:the Kickstarter goals can/should be a bit less rigid than some fans might like, provided the reason for not meeting them is good enough.


I actually agree, but you're underestimating the ferocious toxicity some of the community have regarding this issue. I think Playtonic want to stick to their stretch goals as closely as possible, just as they promised -- with just one exception. I don't see any reasonable way for them to get a full orchestral track for Yooka any time soon.

Octopeart wrote:My point on this is that I hope that they are making the game they feel needs to be made, rather than half-heartedly fulfilling a Kickstarter promise from 4 years ago.


Again, I agree! Although, rather than 'need', I hope they are working on a game they 'want' to make -- something they are passionate about. I imagine, by now, Playtonic just want to focus entirely on the new stuff, but are being weighed down by things like the 64-bit tonic and DLC -- these are the things that 'need' to be made, even if they do not necessarily 'want' to do it.

Octopeart wrote:At this point, I'd personally rather them skip Y-L DLC and just incorporate any future ideas they have for the series in a sequel comparable to how Banjo-Tooie built on Banjo-Kazooie.


Also agree, but DLC is something Playtonic can realistically achieve, so there will definitely be backlash if they bundled it into a paid-for sequel after promising that it would be free to backers. Even if they discounted the sequel to backers.

Octopeart wrote:It might be a bit narrow-minded, but I think the only DLC that really makes sense for Y-L is something like an extra world or purely cosmetic things like the 64-bit tonic, maybe some costumes like Mario Odyssey, cheat codes, etc. I think anything beyond that involving new moves or bigger design changes would look strange when tacked on to the original game, could even affect how the original game plays, and would be better suited for a sequel.


And this is exactly why I think the DLC will be something quite basic, which solves all your concerns. A small team can work on a small DLC, not taking up too many resources, while the rest of the team puts their efforts into Game #2. Then you technically have most of the Kickstarter goals achieved, while still putting your best work into the upcoming project.

Of course, the only negative here is that some people might be angry that they waited so long for something so small.

Octopeart wrote:Beyond all of this, I am just excited to see what they reveal next!


Me too!
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Octopeart
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Octopeart » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:08 pm

Taylor wrote:
Octopeart wrote:It might be a bit narrow-minded, but I think the only DLC that really makes sense for Y-L is something like an extra world or purely cosmetic things like the 64-bit tonic, maybe some costumes like Mario Odyssey, cheat codes, etc. I think anything beyond that involving new moves or bigger design changes would look strange when tacked on to the original game, could even affect how the original game plays, and would be better suited for a sequel.


And this is exactly why I think the DLC will be something quite basic, which solves all your concerns. A small team can work on a small DLC, not taking up too many resources, while the rest of the team puts their efforts into Game #2. Then you technically have most of the Kickstarter goals achieved, while still putting your best work into the upcoming project.

Of course, the only negative here is that some people might be angry that they waited so long for something so small.



I think this is the answer. I can pretty easily picture a sixth world opened by collecting all of the pirate treasures, alongside something fun like the washing machine transformation in Banjo-Kazooie. I don't know if the potential world would be connected to the main game at all (i.e. there are pagies, ghost writers, and quills) or if it would be something more like Spyro 3's Bonus World, where you gain entry by having enough of the main collectible, and then do different things using a different collectible. Sort of like what you said, it could even help bridge the gap between Y-L and a potential sequel, if not in terms of things like level design and the actual tasks you do, maybe just in the story leading up to a future game, although that may not work when tied to optional/paid DLC.

Assuming again that the DLC for Y-L is a world at least, I do hope that despite the team working on it, they make an effort to make it stylistically in line with the rest of the game. While I enjoy mostly everything about the game, the actual environment/texture art and Grant's level themes are among my favorite parts. I hope that even if a random group is tasked with completing the Y-L DLC, it gets everyone's input and blessing!

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Scrubber
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Scrubber » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:35 am

Taylor wrote: We know Playtonic is working on a second game

Do we?

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Taylor
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Taylor » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:08 am

Scrubber wrote:
Taylor wrote: We know Playtonic is working on a second game

Do we?


Yep, it's been known for a long time now. I'm actually surprised we haven't seen anything from it yet because the first hints at a secret project were well over a year ago.

Grant even said he had finished his contribution to the project. Music usually comes quite late in the development process.

At any rate, I think good things are going on behind closed doors, just like classic RareWare.
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bigfanofoldrare
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby bigfanofoldrare » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 pm

Taylor wrote:
Scrubber wrote:
Taylor wrote: We know Playtonic is working on a second game

Do we?


Yep, it's been known for a long time now. I'm actually surprised we haven't seen anything from it yet because the first hints at a secret project were well over a year ago.

Grant even said he had finished his contribution to the project. Music usually comes quite late in the development process.

At any rate, I think good things are going on behind closed doors, just like classic RareWare.


i thought grant kirkhope was talking about mario + rabbids kingdom battle .. not a new game from playtonic..

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Taylor
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Taylor » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:05 am

bigfanofoldrare wrote:i thought grant kirkhope was talking about mario + rabbids kingdom battle .. not a new game from playtonic..


https://youtu.be/ao8lUp8QHJs?t=1800

30 minutes into this livestream, Grant confirms he has finished his contribution to Playtonic's next game.
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Rueckkoppler
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Re: DLC = Sequel Theory

Postby Rueckkoppler » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:50 pm

Taylor wrote:
bigfanofoldrare wrote:i thought grant kirkhope was talking about mario + rabbids kingdom battle .. not a new game from playtonic..


https://youtu.be/ao8lUp8QHJs?t=1800

30 minutes into this livestream, Grant confirms he has finished his contribution to Playtonic's next game.


Ouuh, that’s juicy! So that’s the first notable mention of the next game, right?


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