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No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:56 pm
by Psychobeans
So I noticed in the new video from IGN that there is no blob shadow under the character. For those that don't know, a blob shadow is the round shadow directly underneath the character in platforming games. It serves to in 3D platforming games. is the blob shadow from Banjo Kazooie.

If you go to the , at around the 0:46 mark, you an see the character jumping across some platforms. Without a blob shadow, it's actually very difficult to judge if the character is above the platforms or not, or how close the character is to the edge of the platform.

I hope the blob shadow is missing only because this is early footage. Without it, platforming becomes very difficult.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:00 pm
by Taylor
Banjo-Tooie had a dynamic shadow. Blobs aren't necessary, but a shadow in general probably is.

This is just the alpha, remember. Lots of changes to be made.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:04 pm
by Psychobeans
Banjo-Tooie does have a dynamic shadow, but it is always directly below Banjo, serving the same purpose.

Edit: At 0:10 in the video, you can see that the shadow is not directly below the characters.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:53 pm
by Jellyfunk
Blob shadows were used back then because of the lack of hardware power. No need for them now. Use real shadows, they work just as well for depth cues.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:06 pm
by Exaskryz

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:16 pm
by DudeSean

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:17 pm
by Jellyfunk
Keep the shadow almost below the characters. It works just the same.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:28 pm
by BetterThanYou
maybe they could have both? A darker blob shadow for platforming and usefulness, and normal shadows to not look weird in compairison to the environment.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:31 pm
by Preston
But, but I like the dynamic shadows :(

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:33 pm
by Jellyfunk

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:35 pm
by dotEXE
I agree that there's a very good argument to have a shadow directly below the character. I don't care what shape it is, but I'm in favor of it.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:45 pm
by Jellyfunk
I don't see how this can be problematic. I don't want this shot ruined with an imaginary shadow.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:52 pm
by dotEXE
It's necessary for navigation in 3D space, otherwise you won't be able to tell if you're above a platform before landing or not = falling into pits. There are literally masters theses written about this. It's a fairly core game design principle.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:54 pm
by jumphil
Matthewmatosis explains and shows off really well why these shadows are important in his Mario 64 review.
I've linked directly to where that explanation starts at 25:29, it ends at 26:23. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6myWz3Kzg&t=25m29s
Just imagine that scene without the blob shadow, it would be impossible to know where exactly Mario is in the air.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:03 am
by Jellyfunk
They were necessary for Mario 64 because there were no shadows at all. This game has shadows.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:13 am
by BetterThanYou

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:17 am
by Psychobeans
@Jellyfunk

If it really bothers you that much, I don't see why it can't be an option in the graphics menu called "Platforming Shadows" or something.

The argument that "this game has shadows so it doesn't need a blob shadow" means nothing. Note how everything in this scene has two shadows, one dynamic shadow on the back wall, and one blob shadow underneath it. Nintendo knows and understands the importance of shadows in depth perception.

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:20 am
by GrayMagicΓ

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:37 am
by Jellyfunk

Re: No blob shadows? 3D platforming needs them.

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:38 am
by GrayMagicΓ