What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
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Krockhead
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Krockhead » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:50 pm

Of course the easy answer is Banjo-Kazooie. While I definitely agree that B-K had the perfect balance, I do think there are other ways to reach that balance. You could easily add more and it would work just as well. Hell, I'd say that DK64 would probably have close to the perfect amount if not for the different colored bananas. It'd still have its issues, yes, but simply allowing any Kong to collect any banana could've done wonders for that game, but I'm getting off track here.

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Ikunuku
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Ikunuku » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:54 pm

There should be a good ratio of necessary and possible main collectibles(The equalient of Jiggies or Mario's stars). 94 out of 100 may be a little too much for me honestly. But the 70 out of 120 of Mario 64 is a little too low, as it meant that I could skip the clock and the sky levels of Mario 64 entirely and still have more than enough stars. I think Tooie also makes this possible but I am not sure. BK made sure you played every level with the high jiggy requirement, and Mario Sunshine forced you to do the first 7 out of 8 missions on every level, which made the game too linear.

A good compromise to make sure you spend time on every level but not make the game too difficult is something like this: you need 75 out of 100 McGuffins but you need to defeat the boss (who is always at a relatively hard to reach part of the level) on every level. Or every level could contain a new move that is needed to reach to final boss.....

And there should be a perfect mix of how the main collectibles ("note equalient") work in Banjo Kazooie and Tooie: they stay collected after you die, but have at least 100 of them, all individually and not in groups. Ammo type stuff SHOULD be in groups like the eggs in Tooie however.

Pgcrooner
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Pgcrooner » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:59 pm

100 music notes(whatever ukulele's equivalant of that may be) 10 Jiggies(Paiges)
in my opinion THAT was the perfect balance.
I hope they do what they did in B-K for XBLA and not have the notes comeback after death. that made playing the original on the n64 a little tedious. collected notes stay collected in the port.
I DO hope you can revisit boss battles though! =)

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dartmonkey
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby dartmonkey » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:04 pm

I've been thinking about this recently. 'Collectables' has become a bit of a dirty word, something to arbitrarily pad out a game and when it's done wrong it kills the fun. I think the key is making the world fun to traverse. I'm currently playing Assassin's Creed 4, my first AC game, and I'm collecting EVERYTHING. Not because I give a damn about the treasure chests, but because it's so damn fun leaping about and scaling all the buildings, etc. I WANT to be in this world and all the treasure maps, etc are a great excuse to explore it all. If the core movement and animation are fun, like in B-K, it makes you want to be in that world and collect any old doohickey.

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Nomonoke
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Nomonoke » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:09 pm


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Enrel
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Enrel » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:34 pm

Stars in Mario had their place. They were in stage challenges that were generally short and sweet. Though I would agree that Notes and Jiggies actually did more than the stars.

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LinkJr
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby LinkJr » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:57 pm

I haven't played DK 64, only Banjo Kazooie and Tooie, so my opinions are only related to these two.

I particularly don't think too many types of collectibles are a problem as long as you have a use for them, as for the actual number of each, I think it depends on the size of a stage, as long as it can fill the stage in a way to keep you enjoying the level, but also not collecting one at every step any number is good.

What I don't really like in Tooie though is actually the way levels affect each other, because I can see I'm missing a collectible in X stage, but to get it I actually have to play Y stage and find the link between the two, and I felt that a lot of the time it was really difficult to figure it out. In this case I think if there is some link with another stage it has to be made more "obvious" as to which stage has the link, so I don't spend hours trying to figure out a solution that doesn't really exist in that space.

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weebbby
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby weebbby » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:01 pm


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Taylor
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Taylor » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:01 pm

I feel Kazooie got it right. Tooie was OK, but I think I preferred the old note system. The Jinjo system in Tooie was a little more interesting though, I guess, but I wouldn't mind either way.

I guess what I'm saying is that a re-skin of the Kazooie/Tooie collectables would be fine with me. Donkey Kong 64 really was too much.
Taylonic Ltd.

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Rueckkoppler
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Rueckkoppler » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:09 pm

I mostly agree to most of the posts in this thread, but I want to add that I really liked the collectables that were only present in a certain level - like Captain Blubber's gold in Treasure Trove Cove, the money coins in Jolly Roger's Lagoon or even something like the food in Witchyworld!

What I'm thinking about is if they should save the progress of the 2nd priority collectables (Notes in B-K & B-T) after leaving the level - or not. If not, it's going to be a bigger challenge. But maybe its not as accessible and also quite frustrating for newer players who don't know about this system. Considering that they changed this in the XBLA versions, I would expect that they save the progress in this one as well. Then I would be fine with non-stacked "Note-like"-collectables which would even out the "missing challenge" due to its increased quantity. Yeah, that sounds good! It would also allow to place them at some hidden spots to encourage exploration even more!
Last edited by Rueckkoppler on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Enrel
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Enrel » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:38 am

Oh yeah! I completely forgot that Notes at least in BK didn't actually save. So you'd have to collect all 100 notes at once otherwise it's like why even bother. Please make sure that everything collected it permanent! It sorta felt like Notes in BK were kind of inconsequential because you had that all or nothing sort of mentality to it.

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Tiptup
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Tiptup » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:19 am


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lavamario
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby lavamario » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:45 am


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Savage Rodent
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Savage Rodent » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:51 am

Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.


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DreaminErryDay
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby DreaminErryDay » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:59 am

I think both B-K and B-T had a good balance of collectables. B-T just felt like a lot because you were constantly backtracking to worlds. Both games are nowhere near as excessive in the sheer amount of collectables DK64 has though.

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Tamashii7
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Tamashii7 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:20 am

The thing that's great about collectibles is that it gives the player incentive to explore. I liked how BT handled collectibles. You kept notes forever after finding them, and they were used to unlock new abilities, instead of just being a second method of unlocking new areas. Notes were how you became stronger, whereas jiggies were quest objectives that unlocked more areas to explore and thus more opportunities to grow stronger. BT just struggled with evening the distribution of notes throughout the larger worlds.

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Enrel
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Enrel » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:52 pm

That sort of brings up a question though right? Is backtracking okay for collectables or do you want to get it all in one pass?

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Savage Rodent
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Savage Rodent » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:42 am

Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.


DeviWhite
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby DeviWhite » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:52 am


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Tamashii7
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Re: What's the perfect balance of collectables?

Postby Tamashii7 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:54 am

Last edited by Tamashii7 on Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:50 am, edited 4 times in total.


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