Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Dan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:43 pm

I cannot tell if these are bugs or my own failures.

I have toybox plus installed, and at the start the wall says toybox +, but I'm unable to use a combo attack (unless the spin is the combo attack but I doubt it.)

I cannot roll in a ball while win 10 + xbox 360 controller is enabled (which is my setup)

When I disable it, the controller however works perfectly fine in all capacities.

The deeper blue steep slopes are a bit un-intuitive.

I was able to get all 100 quills.
Last edited by Dan on Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby trogdor1 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:45 pm

I loved the camera angle from the high/side the most, the angle staight down wasn't quite exciting. I did have a weird thought. Wouldn't it be nice if Yooka would slide just a bit more when running and going into a crouch? I always enjoyed making banjo slide all over the place that way... Just my two cents.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Quarg Ranger » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:47 pm

Made an account for feedback!

To chime in with everyone else, I really enjoyed the Toybox a lot. Not sure whether it was Toybox+ running or not (Steam says its installed, but everyone else seems to be waiting, I imagine the bit that ends with the SECRET is part of plus?), but I had a blast playing through it a couple of times.

Things I found:

Camera Issues that everyone seems to be talking about. Particularly for me it was during rolling that this was frustrating. Especially if you start rolling towards the camera. The camera moves to behind the characters very quickly, which makes it almost impossible to control a direction. I'm sure all the camera stuff is being worked on though! Same complaint as a couple of others on the bit where you have to jump round a corner with the camera being a bit painful.

Rolling is a lot of fun, but it's seems the only way to tighten the turning enough is to constantly be jumping, and turning in the air :p.

Laylee-Gliding mechanic has a little bug where it sometimes doesn't activate if you're near to landing (if anywhere from like the waist down gets near the platform edge) on a platform with Yooka. Just a little frustrating, had a number of falls (especially on those rotating platforms) that felt a bit unfair. Obviously it's in pre-alpha, so this is all sort of expected!

"Tailspring" is brilliant, has a very nostalgic feel to its animation as well. There is a nostalgic sort of bug with it too though. If you start springing while on an object, but slide off with your crouch, if you then hit the ground before the spring is sprung, then you get a sort of double-spring-jump. The second tailspring animation interrupts the first, and you get like 1.75x the height from the normal spring-jump off of the lower ground. Thought I'd bring it up because I didn't see it anywhere else, an easy thing to miss I guess?

I didn't hit rock bottom. By which I mean that I jumped through the bottom of a rock that was on another rock, and landed inside the rock (I replicated and have a video if it's useful). It was one of the archways in that big row. I could get out of the sides or top, so it was fine, but the camera got stuck on the edges of the rocks while I was inside, so it was a bit disorienting. I'm guessing that I won't be able to go through rocks in the real game though, so the camera bit probably isn't important.

The swimming controls were great, I love buttons for going up and down, fixes so many implicit camera issues straight away. I couldn't get the combo attack to work (whenever I hit an enemy, hitting the attack button again did nothing), wasn't sure if that was a thing, though it seemed to be on the control screen.

I think that's it :). Apart from to mention that I loved, /loved/, the script. I'm so pleased to finally see this brand of humour back in a game. If this is the effort that went into writing a few pithy one-liners in the toybox model, I can't wait to see the effort that's going into writing a few pithy one-liners in the full game.
Last edited by Quarg Ranger on Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby creep50 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:48 pm

I would like to point it out that i did not get the change to play the i am not completely sure about the 'feel'...i have never been a fan of a 'mario world/land 3D' type of a 'fixed camera' i feel like it cheapens the game for some reason.

..But what i can say is that the way the camera felt at least in Banjo kazooie/tooie on XBLA was absolutely flawless..the horizontal control was great (vertical seemed to be based on the N64 version) anything close to that would be great...also someone mentioned that first person view was missing..i think that would be a great feature to add

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby shakiena » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:52 pm

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Meinhard1 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:53 pm

Still trying to get controls configured.
Playing in OSX with a 360 controller I can run around but not move through text, jump or any action ...

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Piet » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:06 pm

So what are the differences between the 2 Toybox version?

The ones I know off:
- The '+' symbol next to the 'Toybox' sign at the beginning.
- The extra island with the enemies.
- Some attack thingy, but I can't see/tell the difference. I played with DLC (+) content and without, but I can't seem to perform a different/longer attack in de Toybox+..

Are there anymore & can anyone tell me more about the different attacks (1*X & 3*X)?
Last edited by Piet on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby halcy » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:08 pm

I'd like to add my voice to the requests for having the ability to invert the x axis in the final game, especially as somebody who opted for a console version (I'm sure that on the PC, I could find some tool that fakes the input to invert the axis without the game supporting it, but on console, well, not so much). I'm not sure why I'm used to it, but I am, and though I've tried in several games, it is a really hard habit to break...

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby PaperDerp » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:09 pm

So I think I did everything in this I can do at the moment & first I just want to say this was pretty good for what it was and I can already imagine me having fun with the final product. I think the controls are mostly dead-on & feel nice (especially that roll move).

My issues were mostly the camera, it got stuck behind walls at times & turning it didn't feel real fast on my controller, especially when rolling up that one spiral "hill". Swimming is a bit sluggish as well, I hope there's a way to speed it up similar to what Banjo-Tooie did and a smaller thing is pushing stuff was a bit weird & felt unpolished due to the lack of a pushing animation.

By the way, I found a small glitch when I was entering the upper part of a loading zone for the Particle Room:

Overall though, this got me pretty excited, I definitely can't wait for when it releases.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Meinhard1 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:14 pm

Update: using standard usb 64 controller.
Current configuration has right c to jump, a to crouch and stuff like that but totally playable! Ahhhh

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Dan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:16 pm

So now that I believe I've completed it (particle room), some feedback.

The camera can be zoomed in and out with the scroll bar, but the controller had no way to do this.

I really liked the changing camera angles in the maze, I don't think any one camera angle is correct, and that dynamic changing ones like that are correct.

You should be able to double jump out of the ball, but only into the flap formation, the way you could go from talon trot to flip flap.

The right bumper being the camera fixer is un-natural, consider switching it to something like pressing the control stick in "R3" I believe that button is called. Failing this, simply make it activate by holding in both of the bumpers together (this is actually preferred by me as a player)

The slopes being different shades of blue and one of them being scalable and the other not was really un-intuitive, though I'm sure it'll be a lot clearer in the final game with non-toybox models.

when running and holding the left trigger, you should slide to a stop, see: banjo kazooie.

The particle robot should let you know that is the end of the demo.

Edge grabbing. Please.

Catching the ghost-writer was actually just not at all fun.

Swimming was very foreign feeling and unlike the original games. Consult the xbla ports of the first two banjo games to get an idea of ideal controls and motion in water. The movement underwater is one of the things that really separated banjo games from other platformers, in that they were uniquely enjoyable. Most games, this one included, swimming isn't fun.

The purple balls collision detection was god awful, it felt like rocket robot on wheels.

There was no animation for pushing things, or any weight to them, it felt strange.

Overall every other factor that comes to mind was pretty much flawless.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby marioman63 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:20 pm

probably gonna end up repeating suggestions, but here are mine:

- would love an invert x axis. im too used to the old standard for camera controls, and i dont think i ever got used to the current x axis in the toybox

- to add to that, camera sensitivity adjustment would be great, especially if each axis was adjustable separately. it was a tad slow for my tastes in the toybox, but i bet some people found it too fast. allowing people to change sensitivity would solve everyone's problems.

- having 2 shadows looks really strange. i fully understand the need for the drop shadow (to help aim your fall), but having it and the actual shadow looks super weird. perhaps dont show the normal shadow when jumping? although that might look worse.

- render the character as a silhouette when behind walls, like the way mario is rendered in most of his games, especially noticeable in super mario sunshine.

- can we have some sort of idle animation when yooka is in ball form? it looks really strange having them stand perfectly still while rolled up. maybe laylee would teeter around a bit, trying to keep her balance or something.

- not really related to the toybox directly, but it would be neat if the toybox became an unlockable in the final game, especially with the you-know-what hint at the very very end. players who didnt get the toybox tier wont even know about that secret (unless thats on purpose), and it would be a neat nod to older games which always had their debug worlds hidden on the disc, although those ones usually needed a cheat device to access. the toybox was fun, and different enough from the main game that it would be a neat little secret to unlock, especially with how its connected to the main game already.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Squeakers » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:22 pm

I'm so happy that I'm getting to play this! I'm really loving it so far! I can tell a lot of love and work has been put into this game. Messing around with the controls, I noticed a few things that felt just slightly off for me. One being that the ground pound doesn't lock your position. You still float forward a bit after pressing the button for it. Perhaps locking the player in place when activating the ground pound can provide a bit more accuracy.

Also, when holding the trigger button to enter the rolling animation, the characters are incredibly still. In the case of Yooka, it's not so much a problem, but you can freeze Laylee where she is simply floating in the air. It's the only animation that's felt a little unnatural.

Also, moving the sticks on my controller forward just ever so slightly caused Yooka to move very slowly. Overall, I'm fine with this, and the animations are lovely. However, I do remember Banjo not only having a slower movement, but also adopting a more "sneaking" animation when moving slowly. Perhaps this could also be applied to Yooka to differentiate even more between the slow and speedy movements?

Swimming controls felt a bit unresponsive and I would like a bit more control there.

Thanks for all that you guys do! And thanks for giving us the chance to provide some feedback!

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby GeneralWalnut » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:33 pm

Some quick thoughts (Regular Toybox, not +)

On foot: Thought it felt pretty much perfect. Reaaaally maneuverable, super responsive. I agree with people saying that Yooka should slide a bit when crouching from a run.

Pushing against stuff: Would probably help if Yooka pushed with his arms and not his face (should probably happen when running into a wall too). When pushing a bit of a snap so it isn't so easy to lose the thing you're pushing would be nice.

Ledge grab: Would be nice. Not necessary but nice.

Reptile Roll: Definitely not the Talon Trot! Once I realized that and got used to it I enjoyed using it and it mostly felt good. The turn radius could be tightened up a fair bit and I think it would feel much better, but I do like it as is.

Swimming: Probably the thing that needs the most tightening up, for both above and under the water. The momentum based slide that swimming has now makes sense, but is way too overbearing right now. It makes it feel real slippery and would probably feel a lot better if it was just a little push.

Underwater controls take some getting used to but I think I do like it in concept. when you hit A or X to change depth there's a delay, and once Yooka turns either up or down it is always very severe, straight up or straight down. If he started moving up or down as soon as the button was pressed and it took holding it for a bit before he was angled straight down that would probably be better. (also more traditional swimming controls would also be fine)

Running and jumping is so fast that it feels bad to swim as slowly as you do, it would be nice if general movement speed was increased as well.

Camera: I mostly thought it did its job. Having the X inversion option would be good (for the crazy people who want to play a game like that), and it got stuck on the environment and ended up in some weird places at times, but for the most part I thought it was in a good place.

Sound mixing: a little high with some of the SFX, especially the underwater ones.

Animation stuff: Swimming above the water could have some more splashes or something, looks a little strange. Again the thing where Yooka doesn't do much when running into a wall. A couple of jarring transitions, like when you roll into the water, or just walk into it from a slope. Small stuff that I have every faith will be tightened up.

Overall: Looked and felt great. The game's still got some time in the oven but it definitely has a base that's got me convinced we're in for a real treat when it releases next year. Surprised the required specs were so low and that gives me some hope that it will run great on consoles.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Yavga » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:37 pm

* Moved the whole in-depth feedback to page 7

Last edited by Yavga on Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stop picking your nose

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby TheMightyGrowlie » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:40 pm

In terms of Camera Feedback I liked the 45 degree one, gave enough to accomplish your main goal while still giving spots to hide collectables. the very first room where it was constantly changing made seemed to affect the movement as well as the camera, due to the movement being camera based. also I'm unsure what the exact differences were between the Toybox and Toybox +. I have toybox Plus and it says there's an extra area to explore but I couldn't find anything past where all the quills are, unless that's where the secret button comes in. I also noticed in controls it said there was an attack combo for Toybox Plus but I was still only getting the spin attack instead of any combo with hitting X 3 times on the controller. not sure if this is a glitch or if it's not recognizing that I have Toybox+. it did saying on the wall in the opening room Toybox+ so I'm not sure. I also noticed on the Ball dropping if you just down immediately after it you beat it to the ground, it seems to have a constant fall rate with no acceleration and just seems very floaty.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Captain Paul » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:49 pm

Dunno if this is the place for bugs (or if this is already known) but I found a bug with the crouch jump where if you slide off a platform when you crouch then jump when you hit the floor below and hold A you jump twice.

Video of bug

Other than that, a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Looking forward to the full game!

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Drkylec » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:05 pm

Was kind of mad at the controls at first because I was stuck in the roll mode until I looked into options and found the controller option which fixed that. Otherwise this is a great game so far. Wouldn't mind having a ledge grab ability or button though.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Alkaris » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:06 pm

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby MaxPower » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:07 pm

Will the devs read this ?

Anyway, here's my feedback.

First of all, I am well aware that this is the pre-alpha build, so it's much likely that for most of my complains, the devs are already working on them.
Second, I have completed the sandbox (100 quills, 1 pagy, 1 secret button and 1 secret dialogue).

Lets start with the complains :
-Camera need serious work. It is absolutely atrocious right now. It get stuck a lot in the walls, the sensibility is too low when playing on the pad, and no option to reverse X axis.
-Water controls suck. The character move down and up in water by increments rather than raw float numbers. It's much less fluid than it could be.
-Some animations are clunky. For instance, if you jump out and back in the water in certain area, you clearly see Yooka teleporting back to the surface of the water rather than the transition being fluid.
-Maybe add an ability (maybe it's already planned but just not in the pre-alpha build) to hang on edges. Would make normal jump more useful rather than only using super jump !

Now let's end on a positive note :
-Even with my complains, I had great fun completing this sandbox. I didn't see the time pass, and it was just a pre-alpha level !
-I love the humor in the dialogue. Exterminate all organics. Zzzzip.
-The controls (with the exception of camera and swimming) felt very good. Platforming was easy because of it (when the camera didn't do too much caprices)

Thank you for your hard work !

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