Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby DarkI3ahamut » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Loved the Toybox, great stuff and a lot of fun to run around in and explore.

- Preferred the birdseye view camera that was more of a 45 degree angle than the top down perspective in that one section. (This feedback was specifically asked for it is!) ;)
- The main camera worked well for the most part but it did get snagged on the environment every now and then. I also felt like I couldn't look up or down as much as I prefer.
- I suggest that the camera automatically tilt down a bit further during jumps. When making long or high jumps it's very difficult to tell where you are spatially when you can't see the static shadow that's always directly underneath Yooka and Laylee. Sometimes I'm pretty close to the ground, ready to make a landing, and the camera still just isn't tilted down enough to see that shadow. I also cannot manually aim the camera at that angle either. In a few instances this made jumping feel like leaps of faith when I felt I should be in total control for those particular situations.
- I know this was blocky, test terrain but I thought I should point out that most vertical jumps up the environment seem to be at this perfect height where a perfect double jump would just get you over it by nothing more than a single pixel. It never felt right making those jumps and I never had confidence in them and would just resort to the high spring tail jump instead. Just hoping that in the final game the dynamic terrain isn't so pixel perfect with the jump heights required to reach them.
- I'm sure this will be added but Yooka and Laylee are in dire need of starting, stopping, and still animations well in rolling mode. Looks quite silly at the moment :lol:
- Also adding some pushing animations when moving blocks would really help make that feel better. It just felt loose and the box felt like they didn't really have any weight to them without some kind of corresponding animation.

That's all for now. I'll chime back in if I think of anything else.

Thank you so much for the opportunity the try out Yooka-laylee! I absolutely adored it!!

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Crouch Jump (Lt + A)

Postby Papa Bad Dad » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:20 pm

I feel like i lose too much of my momentum when i Crouch jump (im not sure what exactly to call it but for now i'll use crouch jump) I would like to be keep moving a bit more when i crouch jump so that i don't have to stop in front of a platform. This helps keep the game moving smoothly without any interruption to player control and movement. I do like that you can crouch jump and time it just right as you slide off a platform so that it reactivates after you've already left the ground, although in the current state it doesn't seem like it would be of much use, i feel that if you kept more of your momentum, this could be used to do some really neat tricks. Overall i'm very pleased with what you guys have so far, keep up the great work!

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby DragonSix » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:22 pm

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby monsterrob » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:39 pm

I thought it was brilliant. I think most of the complaints people have the guys will be well aware of anyway so keep up the good work playtonic. Id have paid £40 just for the toy box. Did i miss the particle room before i got my pagey or is that the final secret?

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby chiguinoki » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:55 pm

The camera is TERRIBLE for me. Too sensitive. The same thing when moving Yooka and Laylee. Controls in general are just extremely sensitive. But, the rest of the experience is amazing. Amazing work that just needs to be polished. Other thing I noticed, when the camera enters into "cutscene mode", like when you enter the maze part, the movement of it should be starting and ending smoother. Easing in and easing out.
Last edited by chiguinoki on Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Nidonocu » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:02 pm

Definitely enjoyed my Toy Box experience, it shows a lot of promise with the game so far!

A lot of what I came to say has been covered already: pushing animation and object weight (especially in that pink ball section which felt very lacking), camera controls and character shadows when the character is occluded. I'd especially like to second the suggestion that the camera is a bit intelligent and when you're say, navigating a series of floating platforms, it locks on and keeps the 'next' platform or expected target in view, I sometimes found myself losing track of the spot shadow normally used for aiming.

Ledge grabs. Please. This obviously affects the gameplay and not every ledge needs to be grab-able if the section is supposed to be especially challenging, but being just a little short is really frustrating. Likewise, I think there needs to maybe be a visual cue system of sorts to help players work out if they'll need a regular jump or spring jump to tackle an obstacle.
These two could even be tied together with grab edges on platforms that just require regular jumps (which players are more likely to misjudge and need to catch themselves) and not grab-able for platforms that require planning, a spring and flutter to make. In the Toy box I often ended up either springing where I could have just regular jumped and regular jumping when I needed to spring!

On a creative note, I enjoyed the sound effects for the most part that are present but there are plenty of small actions that are currently silent and need sound.
For collecting the Pagie at the end, I'd really love a big victory animation from the characters a.k.a. B-K. I always missed in B-T that they kept the music but not victory dance when collecting a Jiggy. That animation was funny, never got old and was always was a nice 'well done' celebration moment.

Chests: Jumping inside the chests to collect the quills wasn't really 'fun'. Smacking the chest and the quills popping out at the impact, letting the player even try to catch them in the air with a jump before they land outside would be more dynamic and interesting. A bit like bursting open coin blocks in Mario and trying to hoover them all up quickly. Like others have commented about exploding boxes and barrels, being able to beat up containers till they burst apart is fun!

Transitions: When moving through doorways, you get the nice Yooka-Layee iris in and out effect. However, because the doorways themselves were pitch black, it meant the blackout sorta merged together with the darkness of the door and looked weird as the animations ended and started. I think it would be nicer if rather than blackness, we got a hint or view of the room or space inside through the doorway (or whiteness rather than darkness for 'return to exterior' doors). Unlike the old console era, we have the extra resources to show interiors through doorways!

Hinting: The toy box textures means its hard to 'highlight' players towards secrets and hidden areas, but for the main game, I do feel its important to make sure lights, detailing and so on are used to guide the player to hidden quills. E.g. watching my other half trying to find the secret cave that had opened after you press the final button was so frustrating because there was no light or other obvious eye catching thing to draw your attention down towards the underwater cave.
The other idea we had was that if the player has only a few quills left to find in the level, they can visit a "Cheato like" character to assist them in marking out the quills that have alluded them without turning to an out-of-game guide. This could be a late game reward after other character upgrades have been given out. How the player would have to 'pay' this helper with in game activities, mini-games, etc. is an exercise for the reader!

Checkpoints: Assuming there are going to be large bottomless pit areas in the real game, having the pair at least return to the bottom of the 'island' they are on would be less timewasting than having to traverse the entire level to get back to the bottom of the island to then climb it again.

That's all for now! Looking forward to seeing future developments!

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby tajashal » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:02 pm

The toybox was really stellar. I have a few issues:

- Underwater controls felt strange. I think I would have preferred "flight" style controls i.e. forward on the control stick to go down, backward to go up, A to go forward or something like that.

- I agree that some sections should have fixed camera like the see-saw portion, and it should be possible to see your character through walls if the camera is fixed. The right-stick camera control was a little wonky as well, if it would be possible to make it more fluid to move the character and camera at the same time. I felt like the character's direction kept changing when moving the camera while running.

- Jumping felt a little overpowered. I often skipped over entire block sections with just a spring jump and then flight.

- Pushing objects was not great. There should probably be a "grab" option, and then you go into grab mode where you are attached to the sphere or box or whatever it is you're pushing/pulling. Just running into the object looked and felt weird, and was more difficult than it should have been.

Otherwise, great job! It looks really good.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Greenorys » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:09 pm

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby wwwarea » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:16 pm

I just played it.. though my PS3 controller isn't supported very well. :(
I also noticed that Yooka Laylee has no shadow at all. I'm not talking about the blob shadow that appears when jumping, I'm talking about the realistic one. It doesn't show anywhere I go so far.. is this because mine is not +? Or my computer?

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby GeneralWalnut » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:19 pm

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby mrthegamerdude » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:27 pm

Absolutely loving the toybox! I would list off the positives, but then I'd be going on for WAY too long, so assume everything I don't mention here was done well!

In terms of the special camera angles, I guite liked the 45 degree camera angle, as it is more unique than the standard bird's eye view camera. Although the latter of which would make solving certain puzzles easier, I feel like the former could be used to cleverly hide some quills (as long as they aren't frustratingly placed!), so basically I think both cameras are great and both should be used when appropriate!

Now as for issues I have, there's nothing too major. First off is the swimming. I feel as though you swim a tad bit slowly - maybe make it so that you can hold the trigger to speed up (for a bit of strategy make it so that you can't ascend or descend whilst sped up - but that's just idea!)

Also, I'm sure you have probably noticed and addressed this, but I feel like there should be some special animation for when you are about to roll, but aren't moving. It's rather odd to see Yooka and Laylee just frozen when you are at a standstill, but then again that's probably because this is a pre alpha!

Another nitpick I can think of is to do wit pushing objects. Ilike how the physics allow for rolling balls and pushing crates, but I feel like some pushing animation would help it feel more satisfying. Maybe make it so that you have to push it by holding a button down, therefore allowing you to pull it as well!

One feature I would like to be implemented is a first person camera mode - as it would make climbing to the top of a mountain and looking around much more fufilling, and it will help with trying to discover where that secret button is! :lol:

If this toybox is anything to go bye, then this game will be surpassing my expectations! Excellent work! :D

TL;DR: I prefer the 45 degree camera, as it can be used to sneakily hide quills, but both cameras should be used.
I think swimming should be a little faster of there should be a button to speed swimming up.
I feel that maybe a button to push and pull objects would be better than walking into objects.
And I also think that there should be an animation when Yooka and Laylee are in the rolling position but aren't moving.
Finally, a first person camera mode would be a great addition.
Last edited by mrthegamerdude on Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thunder Rahja
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Thunder Rahja » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:04 am

I love the Toybox so far. Can't wait to see the full game!

- When running toward a ledge and executing a high jump, the characters continue moving. If they fall off the ledge, the high jump launches from midair. I'm pretty sure this is unintended.
- During a long fall, I touched a ledge without landing on it but the hard landing animation played while I was still falling. It was amusing to watch Laylee lift Yooka up out of the water.
- The tilting platforms one has to climb on the way to the summit are somewhat frustrating to navigate due to the dynamic camera moving so that the platforms block the view of the characters. A fixed camera angle would help in this section.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Phenixer » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:14 am

Finished the Toybox, looking forward that p1r4t3 sh1p.

- Camera has problems. It sometimes get stucks in geometry and you have to wait so it replaces itself. When you double jump, it could also have a smoother transition.
- Attacking and Rolling feels like you are floating, cannot explain more than that, don't know why.
- I jumped on a balancing wooden platform on the big island in the sky and it teleported my character somewhere outside the world and I died. Seems to be a physics bug. I jumped on the last platform the one that is the harder to get on to.

Very nice experience I thought I would not finish it but I did indeed, was too good !

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby austinthefaustin » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:23 am

I loved the Toybox. Everything about it was perfect except two tweaks that could be made.

1. The "Bat-Roll" travel. It seems slippery and is hard to control in tight spaces (like the dreaded tower) and I feel it would be beneficial to the player to have it controllable like "Talon-Trot" in Banjo-Kazooie.

2. Swimming. The controls for swimming were disorienting and hard to get used to. As an avid fan of the N64 era of Rare games, I feel it would be best to revert back to the original way of swimming, as it was in Donkey Kong 64 and Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie.

And, as they said in the Toybox, they wanted feedback on the camera angles in that maze-like area where you push the boxes around. I prefer the one that mildly follows behind you rather than the static view. I would like to suggest maybe having the ability to rotate the view as you move within the environment.

That about covers everything I wanted to share. Thanks for reading!
Last edited by austinthefaustin on Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby wwwarea » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:26 am

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Toybox Feedback

Postby Tiffanyjane » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:32 am

After putting a couple hours into playing around in toybox, I compiled everything that I noticed within a pastebin.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby FangztheWolf » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:36 am

The only thing that I think that really needs to be tweaked is the camera. It would often readjust to awkward positions, and during some sections of the Toybox, it felt like i was fighting it.

Also, for the three indoor rooms, I liked both the camera for rooms 1 and 3, though I did get confused at first in room one, and thought there was no ceiling at first.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Octopeart » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:16 am

I guess I can see the benefits of the current swimming mechanic (I'm assuming it's so altitude and the direction you face are independent), but I don't think it's better than the one from Banjo-Tooie, which is more intuitive in my opinion.

That, and the diffraction underwater is a little jarring because I don't think it looks as realistic as it would if the image weren't distorted. That would make more sense if the camera is supposed to be outside the water, but since it's underwater with Yooka and Laylee, it feels off.

I'd like to reiterate the character voice thing- they worked really hard on the gibberish, don't cut it short if we want to speed up the dialogue!

With those points, once I inverted the y-axis everything was extremely impressive! If Playtonic reads this, I hope they know how great of a job they're doing modernizing this type of game.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Tek » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:26 am

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Baknik » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:37 am

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