Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[plinko]

[ShanPen]

[mijuee]

Well I post here my thoughts, first I have to say that I loved it,here are the cons from more to less important:
-The game needs a push animation,it's very poor seeing that yooka moves objects with the head, please fix that cause it makes no sense.
-Camera: I think the camera placement is great and the control of it too although many don't agree, however it got stucked in some places making you fall or difficulting the jump and that's what I'd like to be fixed.
-I know it's a pre-alpha but textures need a lot of work(plants, rocks etc)and pop in is clearly there.
-Swimming animation needs to be faster.
-Slope control can be better and when you crash into a red bubble it feels a bit unatural.

Everything else is great, very glad that the most important thing is perfect for me, the game overall feels and controls perfectly aside of the issues.

[Steeley]

Feedback on movement (In Rhyming couplets)

The Toybox was a piece of work,
that from me roused and mighty smirk,
I think it's fab, I think it's great,
and for the game I cannot wait.

But while the duo are not mice,
they walk as if they're still on ice,
they take a while to sit and stop,
not quite so bad if you hop-

onto a ledge that's right above,
you bang your head, and forge how rhyming schemes work.
I hope this works, I hope it helps,
and that you hear my quiet yelps.

-Signed, a concerned citizen.

(All responses must be in some form of rhyme)

[Duth Olec]

People have mentioned the lack of pushing animation; I'd like to bring up the section with the camera angles. It wasn't until I saw a similar box somewhere else in the Toybox that I realized those boxes could even be pushed. I'd tried it a few times before but it didn't seem to work; I think that's due to a slight delay in it, or possibly the required angle. Shrug.

I kept thinking I should be able to grab edges when I couldn't. People have mentioned this. Although perhaps Playtonic is simply planning to add this in the sequel like the BK games did?

Sometimes the double-jump didn't work, instead just going into the gliding. Maybe I should tap the button quicker, or maybe it's even just the controller I'm using. Hey, that's a good segue.

I had somewhat of a struggle getting the controls mapped right. I was using an adapter for a Gamecube controller, and while I did get the auto-entering ball mode problem some people mentioned, before that I would just get the camera constantly spinning and be unable to move. It seems to still do that sometimes. I'm not sure why.

What I was thinking would help would be to make button-mapping freer, since some require an axis-button which was kind of hard to get everything mapped well. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the adapter or game or what but it seemed to think L or R was constantly slightly pressed, thus the auto-entering ball mode. I think I read some people fixed that via the "Win 10+Xbox One controller" option, but I don't think that fixed it for me. I ended up just dumping the input on the d-pad and making it also work by pressing R all the way down.

I have a lot of problems trying to get the Gamecube controller/adapter to work with games though so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I might fiddle around with it some more to see if I can get that XBox One controller option to work, although it's kind of hard when the configuration screen has different labels for the button than the adapter. Plus many of the controls I'm just like "what does this control even mean".

Also, camera. Again, some of the controls in the configuration window looked like they would put the camera in first-person which would have helped me look around a bit, but I'm not even sure which one that would be. I thought I mapped it to the Y button but nothing happened when I pressed Y. Although now that I am remembering, I kind of used Xpadder to help, so at some point I think I started using a control scheme that was half-keyboard half-controller. You know what? I'm just going to do some testing later and get back on that. End ramble.

Besides my personal frustrations with controller mapping it's solid for a pre-alpha build! Also people have mentioned an idle animation for the ball roll; every time I stop on a slope I think "they should definitely be rolling down that slope" so maybe the idle animation could be them rolling in place? The swimming is a bit slow right now, but it feels fine except for the occasion where swimming forward starts to send them downward.\

Edit: Oh yeah and I'm not sure if I completed it fully, I don't think I found the secret button unless it's the one that led to the particle room. I did get all the quills and the pagie.

[Okaps]

[Yavga]

Verdict:


Controls

Controls felt really natural.
Controls invite you to challenge yourself in movement.
I can imagine the speedrunners going nuts and we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.
Really dynamic. But where was my first person camera? I wanted to look!

Ground pounding however, should be on the spot I think.
It feels a little weird that while there is momentum and ground pounding while having this momentum results in a ground pound with momentum as well.

The same momentum problem exists while moving around on normal solid ground, there is a slight momentum when halting all movement. This could be really frustrating where platforming is getting intense. when halting movement I think it will be better that there will be no momentum at all.

Swimming is OK, but not great, perhaps it is because swimming feels slow. perhaps this can be solved by adding a mechanic where mashing a certain button results in a slight increase in speed (just to keep you busy like in super mario 64... It actually feels like I have to do the work, a good thing)

The ball rolling (my favorite movement so far) could need some work as well.
Perhaps it would be nice if I were able to initiate a ballroll mid-air.
Also, when trying to turn on the spot while rolling get's a little wonky, the acceleration for the turn seems too high and results in unpredictable movement.

Last thing about movement would be the slippery vertical surfaces. Surfaces work like this right now:
- Either you can walk (and roll) on it.
- Either you could roll on it.
- Either you should jump over it.
But the way the engine handles this is a bit too rigid to my taste.
Why not enable the player to walk a short distance accross a rollable platform before sliding off?
Why not enabling the player the roll a short distance accross a jumpable platform before rolling off?
(Same way Mario 64 handles this) This is especially true in certain slippery corners, how fun would it be to just keep on rolling without interupting the roll immediatly, this enables some more dynamic race/speedrun parcouring.

A little thing more.
Combo attacks? They don't seem to work for me.
Also, the standard tail attack feels meh. It lacks a punch and lacks an oomph.
In DK64 Chunky had an powerful punch attack that actually felt really powerful when using it.
Banjo Kazooie and Tooie did attack movement great as well. As you really felt the punch or attack.
I am missing that here really... the animation and the way it feels it... feels cheap, sorry.



Camera

Camera is Superb, really noticed this is the particle room when running around the watery ball.
The way I am able to manipulate the camera is really great as well, I had not a single problem with the camera and I really did my best to give it a hard time.

The place where The robot asks for feedback. At the second chamber the camera is so far away that I am unable to hear the player sounds. That's the only thing that I actually wanted to share about that because everything else just worked. I trust you guys with this if you were able to perfect it to this degree already.



Collision

Played around with balls (...) but it was fun to actually being able to move the ball while standing on it
(somewhat) same goes for the barrel. I hope this will be an actual feature somehow later in a certain puzzle.

Collision works, but could be worked upon. The illusion of weight is not yet implemented (balls)
Also, in the area with the boxes and and barrels when breaking something and trying to push the big unbreakable box through the debris results in weird behaviour. as this is not possible. Which gives the illusion the debris is more heavy then the actual object itself. The player IS able to move the debris correctly however.


Lightning

I enjoyed the lightning very much, I played around in the particle room and really had to think back to DK64, which used the expansion pack to handle certain lightning situations. I really hope I will feel these moments back in Yooka Laylee as well. The way light works on the environment and lights up the player. It's an important part for immersion.

I found one small issue. When reaching for floating platforms the dynamic shadow can be confusing. Instead of using dynamic and blob shadow together while being airborne how about making the dynamic shadow less dark (or remove) in these situations so they don't get confused.


Music & Sounds

Nothing less of GREAT music, really got me in the mood for this game
A slight tip for the sfx however.

When I collected all 100 quills I headed for the secret area, before activiting the button I could hear the robot NPC behind a solid wall. revealing his location before being able to know this.


RANDOM GLITCHES


JUMPSCARES


There. That's all feedback. Perhaps I'll change things around a bit later.
Anyway, can't wait for the game. It's a torture really.

[Meinhard1]

^ That poem was delightful


Overall impression:
My favorite part of the toybox was scaling those rocky ruins to get those quills, just something really interesting-looking to climb. (I think that says something about the sort of feedback I can provide that I'd focus on the most interesting set-piece.) I had fun and I grinned. I hummed to the music. I climbed and flutter-jumped off everything.
This whole thing is sort of unprecedented -- getting to play this entirely exclusive "VR" demo area.

Biggest disappointment:
The feel of the game is great in an intangible/hard to put to words, sort of way. AND ... I didn't feel like I had much for options with the Toybox moveset. Most of the time was rolling, spring bouncing, or double jumping and didn't necessarily find satisfying ways to string moves together. I specifically hope I'm not just spring bouncing and rolling everywhere in the final game (sure that wont be the case!)

Toybox-specific critique:
Moving the ball around felt out of place. Not disappointing. I'm completely apathetic towards that portion. Moving the blocks was fun though!
Toybox-specific praise: I really liked that first structure you encounter that one can swim under and into -- just a simple pleasure I took in the areas design.

Swimming:
Completely serviceable and not something I would complain about in the context of a fantastic world to explore but it lacked a sense of joy or excitement.

Misc:
-- I am very much in the quirky pagie-collect animation (like in Kazooie, vs Tooie)
-- Sorry guys. As much as I love the character designs, they didn't pass the little sis test.
-- I like the sound those floating platforms make
-- I liked seeing the ghost writers at the bottom of the pause menu ... a great looking bunch!
-- Had a good chuckle at some of Inepts writing. (p.s. I noticed Chad over at DKVine was feeling really annoyed by the apparent knock on Microsoft's Kinect. Sometimes we can be quite hard on the things we love, and this seems to be a reflection of the deep love of all things Rare thats there.)
-- Something about how the whole area was lit (the lighting) very pleasing

Wonderful:
The minions, their animations and different personalities.

Last word(s):
Bravo

[Gero]

For me The toybox was a long a waited tease for the full game but I had a lot of fun with it for sure! Yooka and Laylee do control really nicely. The swimming just needs to feel a bit more responsive which seems to be the general consensus. I had some depth problems as some platforms looked close but weren't as close but I think thats mostly due to simplistic boxes they used for the toybox.

I am hoping since this is just pre alpha that they will polish up the animations in the full game. The ground slam, spring tail, fall damage, rolling and roll jumping animations really bothered me how stiff they felt. They definitely need more squash and stretch in the animation so Yooka doesn't look like a stiff rock of a chameleon. But as I said it is pre alpha so Im guessing its something that will be fixed later if it hasn't already.

Other than that Im really looking forward to the full game, my favorite room was the one with all the different flavors of floor to walk on. Favorite flavor is the blue floor for sure.

[Banjo0]

So how did everyone's graphic cards fared with this game?

[lordskelzor]

Having played the toybox+ for an hour and a half and finding all of the feathers, locating the secret switch and all that good stuff I figured I'd throw my bit in, in the hopes that it will count towards something.

Firstly: I greatly enjoyed the toybox. I found that I did a lot of things out of muscle memory,which speaks volumes about how much the team has nailed the feel of platforming.

Loved the feel, loved the look, loved the wit. Now that we have established I liked it and I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade here's what I think could be tweaked/added to make things better for everyone.


Camera = janky. It's not nearly as bad as some people I've seen complaining have stated but it does stick and it could be better. I think zooming out slightly further at top speed (not just when rolling) would help as well as angling slightly down when airborne to help with landings. I think all three cameras in that maze area could be used in the game for different areas as each one works in it's own way.

Swimming = It's fine. I think people I've seen asking for the old 3d style need to take off the rose tinted glasses and replay Banjo Tooie. A "go faster" button would be nice though.

Momentum = If you're running and you press crouch you come to a dead stop. This doesn't feel great. In Banjo Kazooie and Tooie you'd slide a short distance if you hit crouch from a run, you could use this to slide into the perfect position for a crouch jump. It made everything feel more fluid.

Combat = My only gripe is that the hurtbox for the ground-pound/butt-stomp/floor-smashy-thing is too small. I tried crushing guys and I had a hell of a time hitting them. Most of the time I'd land right in front of them and then take a hit because I was touching them but apparently not enough to crush them.

Other that than I wish you could grab and pull stuff like boxes, I wish using the attack would send the ball moving and I think it'd be cool if you rolled onto water you'd skip across it like a stone.

Keep up the great work, with the toybox you've cleared the bar and set it higher.

[Thrix]

[lordskelzor]

[Duth Olec]

So I pulled up the game again, this time just using the mapped keys without an external program to make the buttons map to keyboard or whatever, and I realized 1. The control setup for Gamecube controller I ended up with was actually pretty good, though I still don't know what the Camera Mode key is supposed to do 2. The camera is a bit better than I thought it was 3. Wait now double jump is working without any problems, I don't know, it was probably the double-control scheme I accidentally had going on.

Also I still do not know where that secret switch is. I did, however, find a piece of land below the terrain room you can reach. That's something. That you can't get back from.

[Skargrill]

The pushing physics felt really bad. Like, when I pushing the pink ball up the hill ugh, reminded me of the balls you had to push in Okami. That was nightmarish.

Do it like it was in Conker's. Have him grab whatever he is pushing. Its easier to control, and it will make ball pushing puzzles much less frustrating and more satisfying.

[DarkTone]

Hopefully I get an e mail later.

[Rasmusic]

Loved the toybox! The characters controlled well and the camera was great too!

The only thing i want them to change is the font for your amount of quills/pagies.
In the IGN footage of the toybox from E3 the font was Lithograph like the font used for the Yooka-Laylee logo.
They have since changed it to another font but i like Lithograph far more than the new one.
But it's not that big of a deal obviously.

[Aydun]

I really like the top-down fixed-camera for the birds-eye view bit. Felt very Zeldarish. Also, controls felt very precise.

The 45° angle bit didn't really do it for me. Also, using keyboard, you can't run parallel to the walls! Although I'm getting the actual game on console, so that's kind of a moot point for me..

[RelaxedOne]

After playing the Toybox I found these things that could be better:

While rolling I feel that steering is a bit to slippery. I can understand that you can't turn on a dime, but I would like to have a bit more controle while rolling.

The camera gets stuck on walls and while jumping sometimes the camera will be placed in a way I could not see where I would land. I guess I could adjust that manually, but feel like that should not be necessary every time I want to make a hard/far jump.

Things I really liked:

Animations where really great (even if some where missing, but it's only the toybox)

The sounds design is amazing, really liked all of it. (like underwater, "voices" etc.)

Jumping felt fine, had enough controle, just the camera was meh. The shadow to see where you will land is great.

In the end:

Camera is the only thing that really needs work, but everything else felt great. The sounds and the look is amazing and fits with everything that I feel the game is and should be.

I liked the topdown camera in the camera showcase the best.

Ps. This is my opinion and thoughts, maybe others have already said this, but I feel that everyone should say what they thought about it. more times said, more chance they do something about it.

[Scraps69]

So my initial impressions.

Gameplay - the very basis of the movement and actions in this game feels very fluid with a good physics balance. Like a DKC game. So that is excellent.

Camera - I tried to switch the inverted camera option on and off but it still remains the same. So I'm not sure what camera thing I'm on. But it can still get stuck in places. Mario Galaxy did a thing where certain areas got a fixed camera which may be a more suitable alternative.

The Roll - well, It's definitely a bit more difficult to control! Climbing up that mountain with the roll initially was infuriating but I got the hang of it. But it can be problematic when the camera doesn't always cooperate and gets stuck. Also the roll can be a bit annoying with the need for the ball to do a tight arc when doing a 180 degree turn. For tight spaces this is very difficult. Also I find the roll feels weird to be paused on a steep slope and Yooka looks like a taxidermied, inanimate thing. I would expect if the character is on a steep ledge with a ball like mechanic that is not moving forward that he may start to slip down the mountain. Or an animation of Laylee trying to steady Yooka to prevent them slipping down a steep surface enabling them to stay still while Yooka is in ball form. Kazooie can stay still because her talon trot can stick her on the slope due to her talons - not so much a ball with no hand brake so to speak.

The Laylee flying thingy - for this level it felt way too overpowered. While the game had hovering platforms that moved up and down, back and forth, and left and right it doesn't really matter as Laylee could jump from the furthest platform in some places regardless of the hovering platform's position. Maybe this isn't an issue as you get on later in the game. But as for the mechanic itself - it feels good to use.

Swimming - Excellent. I felt I had a lot more control compared to Banjo Kazooie.

Enemies - I enjoyed how the little suckers were really fast and able to move quickly around the character in a jittery sort of sense. Adds that difficulty for basic fodder enemies like BK and hope it gets more chaotic as we get further into the game. I love the bowler hat and the wierd pants hat on the special enemy. And they're interesting lads to look at.

The sliding - Generally alright except I was surprised I couldn't jump while sliding. This is probably a feature but its definitely a weird design decision though probably useful for some challenges etc.

The pink ball - the ball seemed really light and the ball challenge didn't seem that great and lacked potential for the main game. But Conker's Bad Fur Day had a great mechanic where the character sort of locks onto the ball and it provides a steady way of moving the ball. And also allows for challenges based on the mechanic.

Inept - Yeah I like that bloke. Not his tech though ha.

The steep mountain joint (after catching first ghost writer) - pretty easy to do just stand in the middle of the tilting platforms to prevent it doing the seesaw effect. Crouch jump and hover. But the camera did get stuck badly around this area. Again you could position the camera to look at YL to make the challenge look 2.5D - if that makes any sense?

That's all I can think of, I'll give it another crack another time soon and provide further feedback for anything that I've missed. I hope you can get the inverted camera thing fixed because seriously I got so confused testing it out before realizing that nothing was changing anyway.