Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
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Landser
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Landser » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:04 pm

Camera
The camera needs some tweaking in certain areas. If an object is blocking your point of view, it has trouble being adjusted accordingly to the player's preference.
A reversed X-axis camera option would be nice since the Y-axis has this and a more zoomed out view would be lovely. I don't like having the camera too close since it limits my field of view, and it was annoying that the camera zoomed in automatically after a short while.

Controls
The controls are very spot on, though I have some nitpicks I hope will be addressed in some capacity.
Compared to Banjo Kazooie, Yooka is very weight-less. Controlling him feels like a weightless shell, and personally, I would love to get some more weight on Yooka so you have the feeling of controlling something with mass.
Also the ground pound feels floaty. A faster ground pound with some weight and power behind it would be lovely!

Windows 10/XBOX ONE Controller
The game minimized randomly once and the necessity of going into the option menu and turning on the Win 10/XBOX ONE Controller option on is not ideal, especially not when there was no hint of this being necessary on the Windows 10 platform. I hope that this will be addressed, but most importantly the game should not minimize randomly in the final release.

Physics
Mostly regarding the boxes when broken was a bit subpar... a nitpick, but more satisfying physics if possible on the object would be nice.

Final Words
Overall, the product shows potential, and I have 110% faith in the staff to polish this game to it's finest.
I hope the final release will bring back some of the glory days of platforming and bring even more success to Playtonic Games, so we can get even more products from you. Thank you for letting us try out the gameplay mechanics outselves in the Toybox, and thank you for forming Playtonic Games, so we could get back the people that made RareWare so great in the 90's.
Looking forward to Q1 of 2017.
Last edited by Landser on Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dotEXE
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby dotEXE » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:23 pm

I just started and finished the Toybox, and got them there secrets. Here's my thoughts!

First, they specifically asked about these camera angles in the top-down section. My favorite camera angle in the three box rooms was the third - the isometric one - but I do wish I could rotate it. Other than that, looked great, and I wouldn't be sad if it was just plain top-down either.

Ground Pounding - You continue in your direction of motion a little before ground-pounding. Feels a bit floaty, and caused me to miss that first button twice.

Pushable Boxes - The boxes push too quickly, it feels like they have no weight. Perhaps if they waited to move for JUST a split second and then accelerated up to their current push speed. Would probably need an animation of Yooka struggling against the weight of the box.

Swimming Audio - Underwater I think the splashing sounds are a touch too loud or the music a touch too reserved. Could use just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiittle more volume on the music.

Camera - I mostly liked it. I got it stuck a couple of times but didn't have any actually bad experiences.
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Svenshinhan
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Svenshinhan » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:54 pm

Initial Impression of the Yooka-Laylee Toybox - played on PC with a PS4 controller
The Toybox is a fun experience that showcases some solid groundwork and gives me complete faith that the final product will be an awesome experience! I was excited for Yooka-Laylee before. Now, I can barely contain the hype.

Controls
Overall the movement was really solid. Felt slick and responsive. I felt like any time I messed up, it was due to personal screw-ups that had little to do with the game itself, outside of a few exceptions (camera needs some improvement).

Nothing to do with the game per se, but I kept wanting to do Mario-style triple jumps for some reason.

Swimming felt okay. I still think it requires some work to be up to par with swimming mechanics in some games that did it really well (like The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask with the Zora Mask on). I think it was mostly swimming up and down that was a bit awkward. Easy enough to learn, but not quite "intuitive".

I hope we can get native Dinput support for the PC version. I don't have an Xbox (or any of those controllers), only PS3 and PS4 controllers. Using DS4windows works, but the game will still give me Xbox button prompts, which just feels a little weird. At the very least, it would be nice if you could let us manually select PS4 button prompts (since I'm assuming you've created them for the PS4 version anyway).

Camera
I don't know if it was because I was using a PS4 controller (with DS4Windows), but turning the camera left and right with the right control stick would make Yooka duck and roll respectively, making it a little hard to rotate the camera. This didn't happen if I moved the stick only slightly.

There were some sections (the tower in the second area that you have to roll to the top) that were much more difficult than they needed to be because I couldn't turn the camera effectively enough.

Also, please for the love of all things holy, allow us to change the X axis as well as the Y axis for camera control. Using DS4windows to manually switch it, but switching between games constantly makes it more of a hassle.

Physics
Some people already mentioned it, but Yooka kinda feels like he's weightless when he just runs around, attacks or does the ground pound. Like there's no weight to his character.

I LOVED how certain things like plants or patches of sand (in one of the secret areas) actually slowed down Yooka. Can't wait to see how that all works in the finished game.

Misc. Stuff / Overall

Played through the Toybox twice. I'm really excited for the potential of the final game now. Most of the "issues" I listed above aren't gamebreaking problems either.

The general platforming/jumping was very satisfying and fun. Looking forward to the more challenging areas in the final game.

I would list every little thing I loved, but as you can tell, brevity isn't my strong suit, and I've gone on far too long already.

bujiraso
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby bujiraso » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:10 pm

Hi there, just wanted to drop my two cents here.

First things first: the game-feel (player controls, responsiveness, sound and visual feedback on button press, general cohesion between expectations of character movement and actual character movement) is basically perfect. There could be a million tweaks to make it slightly better, but what's important is that the game feels solid; the remaining criticisms are all nit-picks. This is the probably the most important thing to get right across the entire production of the game and Playtonic, you guys have nailed it (as expected!). Just don't horribly alter movement speeds, jumping hang-times, responsiveness for buttons, and the like, and this is going to be amazing.

Now for purely technical issues, I will echo another user here that on Linux, when you Alt+Tab out of the game window in any-way-shape-or-form, the sound component of the game just takes a knife right to the gut. Reloading the window emits a screeching sound, and all sounds continue at a much lower pitch and perhaps slowed down (?), as if the sampling rate dropped from the 44.1kHz and up rate it was at to a grainy blown-out 8kHz or less. Definitely something that 100% needs fixing ASAP. The other technical issue I found is that the fullscreen options for 1920x1200 broke after the first execution of the game. To be clear -- the game booted fine in 1920x1200, I alt+tabbed, broke the sound, exited the game to restart it, and upon restart I had lost the top portion of my game window to blackness. Even re-opening the configuration tool didn't fix it. I would wager it looks like the game "forgot" to draw the extra 120 pixels above the 1080p line, and I couldn't convince it to fix. I worked-around it by playing in 1080p windowed.
I wanna see the Linux version of Yooka-Laylee end up rock-solid, I'd be happy to try out patches, if Playtonic wanna set up a beta channel. (I'm currently experiencing the issue on Arch x64, Linux 4.6.4-1, nvidia 367.35-1, Steam 1.0.0.52-2, Yooka-Laylee SVN Rev 10311, running under gdm+gnome-session 3.20.1-2 btw.)

No other huge thoughts on my mind. Thanks for reading, if you have been!

All Meshed Up
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This old Banjo-Kazooie fan loves the Toybox, but has some critiques. He also writes in third person.

Postby All Meshed Up » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:28 pm

I'm not putting the Yooka-Laylee toybox down at all. I love it and really look forward to the full game. Yes, it's heavily Banjo-Kazooie in most respects, but it also feels like something new and has a unique character to it. It plays well, is nicely balanced, and is gorgeous to look at even with the simplicity of the toybox environment. But hey, you wanted feedback. So here we go.

CAMERA:

Many have said it, and I will too. Please add an "Invert X axis" to the camera options for weird people like me.

We really need a first person view. It helps to orient yourself, and look around at all the pretty. This game is too nice looking to not have this.

Zooming the camera out is tricky. It would be nice if that was easier so I can get a bigger view when I need it.

Basically, if the D-pad isn't being used for something else, let that be an additional camera control. Up for zoom in and third person, down for zoom out, and maybe even left and right to pan the camera slightly and make it off-center. That's odd, but an idea.

I would love an option to prevent the camera from auto-centering when you move. Or at least not center when you're jumping. Not maintaining it's angle makes platforming tricky because your drop-shadow goes below frame even after making sure it's pointed at a wide downward angle beforehand.

As for the maze area: Whenever the camera moves to a position that frames the scene, give us some limited control over it. If I want, or need, to angle the camera to one side you should let me do that. Maybe even zoom in and out to an extent. If the camera must be fixed, then use whatever angle looks best in the given area. A dramatic angle, or a more helpful top-down view for some puzzles?

GAMEPLAY:

I love this, but I gotta get used to having a double jump that actually increases the height of the jump instead of just distance and hang-time. Strange most games don't do this.

When you stop moving while rolling, it irritates me to see it hold on an animation frame where Laylee is between steps and simply floating above Yooka. Not sure how to fix that expect to give her a separate idle animation were she's flapping her wings.

I'm not sure this was intentional, but just like in Banjo-Kazooie I can jump while in mid-air when doing the spring jump (crouch+jump) if I slide off a ledge during the buildup. This was always called a glitch, but I find it's just forgiving.

Please tell me the ghost writers always rhyme like Gruntilda. That'd be swell.

AESTHETIC:

I love the infinite geometry draw distance. I hope we get the option to increase that to include decorative objects and basically push the LOD to maximum for high-end systems like mine.

Debris from destroyed objects doesn't de-load. That's great. Hope it stays that way.

Many of the particle effects sprites are pixelated and rather ugly at 1080. Maybe adjusting their resolution can also be a graphical option.

The spraying water particles are very nice. I like that they interact with you when you jump through them. Will other effects also be this dynamic?

Though I'm sure they are placeholder and done quickly, the water splashes in the room with the various floor types are very simple, slow to move, and unrealistic. Plus there's no interaction when you roll on it.

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CyanideInsanity
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby CyanideInsanity » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:24 pm

Last edited by CyanideInsanity on Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lyfae
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Lyfae » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:26 pm


OmegaBlades
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby OmegaBlades » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:12 am

I thoroughly enjoyed the Toybox. The collecting was great, the climbing, jumping, hovering, and rolling were very good and fun to control.

Here's a couple suggestions/criticisms I had with it:

I personally thought the audio when transitioning between different rooms were very loud compared to the rest of the sound effects in the game. Same with the NPC. He was I think a hair too loud compared to the rest of the noises in the game.

The swimming seemed very awkward to control. I personally didn't like the 2 buttons to rise/sink.
I preferred the swimming in BK/DK64 where the stick had you aim a direction, and you had a fast/slow swim buttons. Those controls felt more precise and easier. I can see you using the prior scheme if you want to have Yooka have one swim speed (which I felt was a little too slow for my preference in the Toybox).

But I would think the scheme from the 64 era games were more fine tuned when it came to swimming, and you can use just a 1-speed swim button instead of fast/slow swim buttons.

I noticed the camera can be caught on objects and therefore not follow YL until you get it unstuck. Suggest having it be able to phase through such objects. I got it caught around a corner of a building when I make sharp turns, and also in the foliage and rocks placed about the toybox.

Lastly, having access to the Plus content of the Toybox, I tried a little bit of the battling, and I was wondering if we'll be able to have access to more of the attack combo without having to rely on enemies being around.

That's about all my main issues with the Toybox. The gameplay is very solid and I'm looking forward to the main game.

P.S. and one more thing, devs, you messed up!

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karashata
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby karashata » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:32 am


SupertoastGT
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby SupertoastGT » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:26 am

Found all 100 quills, buttons and a pirate ship is in my future.
So now; the report:

I ran the game at lower specs than the requirements at medium settings without AA. 60FPS. A shock considering I thought the Toybox was coming to the platform of choice. (PS4 in my case). Diddn't think my rig would run it.

Specs: 2nd gen Core i5, 8 gigs of RAM, Win 7SP1, Radeon HD 6670 1GB DDR5.

Pros:
The platforming that's here is literally perfect.
Great controls on the surface.
Runs well on older rigs.
Nostalgic gold.
Stable. Not one crash. For pre-alpha, that's really something!
The shiniest golden ground pound buttons ever. XD
The good old dialogue is back.

Cons: (For now. It is Pre-Alpha. They are understandable.)
Swimming controls feel very wrong.
No ledge grabbing or tree climbing.
Extremely basic graphics settings.
Repeated dialogue not in the toybox budget. (jk)

Can't wait for the full game! Thanks for letting us play. :D

Linkmaster2010
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Linkmaster2010 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:56 am

Just finished the toolbox, and I found what I believe to be a bug. I was in the enclosed glass ceiling area with box puzzles and I was unable to push the boxes. I continued to other areas thinking I'd gain an ability or something and even went through the door that loads you higher up. I then returned to the box puzzle unable to move it. I jumped off the egde and "reloaded" the area. I was then able to move the boxes as intended to complete the area and the demo.

The only other feedback is to not have the camera "snap" back to a default position so often. I prefer having the camera a fair distance back in 3D platformers. Not only to see my area better, but to enjoy the scenery as I jump around areas. I'm so excited for this game!

BlackKoromon
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby BlackKoromon » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:58 am


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DarkTone
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby DarkTone » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:02 pm

Still trying to get the demo to run.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby ShanPen » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:36 pm

I just went and watched the Yooka-Laylee trailer again after playing the Toybox+, and if you skip to 58 seconds into the video, you see Yooka and Laylee sneaking past Inept the security robot in the library-looking section. So for everyone hoping Inept is in the final game, it looks like they are (unless it's an evil twin or something).

Last edited by ShanPen on Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rocho
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby rocho » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:39 pm

Something that felt very weird was the fact that yooka and laylee loose al momentum when they crouch.

In Banjo Kazooie this made the animations feel more fluid. But as now it just feels a little choppy running and suddenly stopping when crouching instead of sliding.

jwinks
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby jwinks » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:28 pm


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SaffronRose
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby SaffronRose » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:52 pm

So the recent Toybox has shown how one of the Ghost Writers may or may not act out when we attempt to collect them:


What kind of challenges do you guys think the other Ghost Writers would give out in the final game?
Yooka-Laylee DeviantArt group -

Sasakurai
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A Few Things.

Postby Sasakurai » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:22 pm

So I'm sure you guys have read all about it already. BUT!?

1. Camera: Feels really awkward sometimes just to close... or getting stuck.

2. Crouching while running?: Just a thought, that in Banjo Kazooie, you were able to crouch while running and do a sort of slide before jumping. its just the little things like this that makes the game feel more smooth. you dont just slam on the breaks to crouch down. having played banjo kazooie multiple times throughout the years this is just a small thing that would make a (Oddly) Comfortable impact to me and possably many other people.

3. Combat: combat felt nice as i hit those little guys into oblivion lol, but for some reason (I have +) i could not do the combo at all. but it was still nice. good reactions when making contact with an enemy, ect. ect.

4. Rolling: The Rolling ability took a while to get used to. but again (Camera) was an issue for me when rolling. especially trying to get up the tower on the second island. but everything else seemed pretty fine. the tower wasnt so hard once you realise you can slow down and still stay on hills, and its understandable that moving at fast speeds your turns are going to be much less sharp and more rounded.

5. Hidden features!: Loved the little hidden rooms (Took me a while to find the last botton) and the few possible routes you could take to get higher in certain locations :)

6. Nostalgia: Absolutly loving how this feels so close yet so far away to banjo kazooie. The music is spot on! and the gameplay and feel of the game so far is pretty damn accurate. this game should become (Easily) a beautiful benchmark to platform gaming! it will hit all the older players how knew and loved games such as banjoo kazooie, and it can easily draw in all of the younger (newer) crowd!!!

Keep up the amazing work!!! Loved it so far!!! :D <3

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Tamashii7
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Tamashii7 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:22 pm

I've played through the toybox a dozen times and loving it so far. I can't wait for more! The land controls feel amazing, the writing is hilarious, and the music sounds great. Here are some concerns I have about the game so far:

I think the change from the tanky swimming controls of Banjo Kazooie/Tooie to a direction more like Ratchet and Clank is an excellent choice. It may take some getting used to by people who are used to the old controls but I think with some refinement this new direction will give players more control over Yooka and Laylee and make swimming and collecting a lot less frustrating. As it stands right now though, the swimming controls in the toybox are too slow, clunky, imprecise, and unresponsive. Whenever I press the rise/sink buttons, Yooka swims too far up or too far down and takes a long time to readjust to swim straight again.

I really enjoyed using the Reptile Roll ability in the toybox. I think the tradeoff of precision for speed creates a nice balance in the move that the Talon Trot didn't have that gives the player some incentive to use regular walking as well. That said, the Reptile Roll should behave more like a ball. Yooka should roll back down a ramp if he isn't actively rolling upwards. I also think the player should be able to jump out of the Reptile Roll and transition into Laylee's wing flap move smoothly. Lastly, I don't think climbing the ramp tower using the Reptile Roll really suited the move. Making the tower rounded would've made the gameplay alot less frustrating, but in general I think the Reptile Roll should be used to overcome obstacles of speed rather than precision.

Inept requested that users give feedback on the camera choices in the puzzle portion of the toybox. I could see different camera angles working better than others depending on the puzzle or obstacle, but in the toybox, room 3's isometric camera was the most dynamic and interesting, while providing the player with enough information to solve the puzzle. It also reminded me of King Sandybutt's maze from Gobi's desert in Banjo Kazooie.

There were a few instances when the camera would get snagged on something or have to play catch up with the characters. I ran into this problem most frequently during the see-saw platforming section of the toybox.

I hope the feedback helps, keep up the good work devs!
Last edited by Tamashii7 on Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:51 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Spudfish93 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:14 pm

I've just finished the Toybox having found all of the collectibles and, to the best of my knowledge, all of the secrets

Initially it was a bit jarring. I'm an unabashed console user so playing with the keyboard is not my forte. However, once the instructions were relayed in controller format it got a little bit more confusing. However, with a little experimentation I eventually got to grips with it all. From that point on I found it all very entertaining. The humour, game design and even some of the moves, of course, were all reminiscent of Banjo Kazooie. The only gripes I really have with it is that, at times, the camera can be a little cumbersome. The main example I have is in the maze section where you have to move boxes to get to the chest, when at the top-down diagonal angle, it was rather difficult to move in the desired direction.

Other than that, I really can't fault it. I had a great time and I'm sure to return to the toybox every so often to satiate my platforming needs while we wait for the full release!
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