Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
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sketchingsands
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby sketchingsands » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:24 am


ntsouls
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4k textures, etc

Postby ntsouls » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:11 am

So played the toybox all the way through. Some things to note:
I played with 980 ti hybrid, i7 6700k, 16gb ram, ssd. Played ultra-wide UHD (custom resolution)

1. Some effects, textures aren't high res enough.
2. movement is okay. Would kind of like it to feel more like Banjo.
3. Rolling is a bit off.
4. Grab ledges. Need it.
5. He's a chameleon, but no tongue stuff?
6. Can't jump while sliding, weird.
7. When jumping on the teetering wooden platforms, camera should pan out to give a side view I think.
8. NPC bodies should remain. Not poof away (unless in Germany)
9. All wooden objects should be smashable.
10. Wooden box you push is too light feeling.
11. Dialogue balloon kind of, vanishes briefly in between a line of dialogue. Not sure if that's good or not. Maybe not?
12. Wall jump, sliding might be good.

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ShanPen
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Re: 4k textures, etc

Postby ShanPen » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:12 am


ntsouls
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby ntsouls » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:17 am

Right that's true.
Also animation needed for when they get close to wall, them touching that wall.

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Nanirourou
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Nanirourou » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:50 am

you kuh lady

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Yavga
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Yavga » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:20 pm

Stop picking your nose

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Poshy
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Poshy » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:40 pm

Hey! Two friends of mine and myself just had our first experience in the Toybox+ a couple of days ago. We recorded our adventure and have it uploaded here:

We absolutely LOVE what you guys have done, and I am indescribably ecstatic for this game's final release. I hope our feedback and experience comes to help improve the game however you all see fit :D

If you'd like to skip directly to our post gameplay feedback, click here:

Jinjo
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Yooka-Laylee Toybox Feedback

Postby Jinjo » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:40 pm

My biggest bug after trying out the toybox was the design of the character interaction. Laylee being on top of Yooka's head felt weird.

When you compare this to Banjo, he felt like his own character while you were platforming and Kazooie came out when necessary. In Banjo they originally only had Banjo and added Kazooie in when they realised they needed a good excuse for Banjo to be able to fly, glide or run etc. This resulted in a far better design. With Yooka-Laylee, I constantly feel the urge to either chop off Laylee's head, push her down on Yooka's back so I can actually see Yooka, or just get rid of her altogether. It felt very awkward to me as a platforming experience to have Laylee on top of Yooka. I feel like while you're moving around, it should feel and merge together like one character as much as possible, and while you're performing things such as gliding that is the time for Laylee to be more visible, much like the Banjo-Kazooie design which I believe worked far better. I think Laylee should be moved down slightly so that while you're moving around it "feels" like one character, like how Banjo-Kazooie executed it.

I thought the camera controls were a bit weird. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think it was that the force centralizing the camera was too strong. Yes, I know other people have mentioned it, but they need to know that other people think it too.

The swimming mechanics felt weird. I think going with a Banjo-Kazooie style would be better.

The turning mechanics felt strange. This was more noticeable while in rolly-polly mode. It just felt "too" out of control, especially when jumping around corners and compared to Kazooie's talon trot. It's fine for it to be a little hard to control, if that was the intention, but I feel like it's too much, especially when turning like I said.

I know I've made a lot of comparisons to Banjo-Kazooie, but why not? This is a spiritual successor to that game, and that game is by no means a bad example to go by as it is one of the greatest platformers ever made. Yooka-Laylee should be taking the best things from that game, like the developers have said, and the movement mechanics and character interaction was on point and better than Yooka-Laylee at this stage.

I want the game to improve on the things I felt could have been better. Every other aspect of the game, from the dialog/humor to the graphics felt very good and I expect the final game will be an outstanding one.

GeneralWalnut
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Re: Yooka-Laylee Toybox Feedback

Postby GeneralWalnut » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:23 am

I actually really like that Laylee's on Yooka's head and visible all the time. Makes them both feel equally important, and they still seem just as inseparable as Banjo and Kazooie did, to me.

OLI
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Toybox feedback/impressions for the Playtonic team

Postby OLI » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:29 am

First of all, I have to say I reeeeaally loved playing it, it felt so good to finally being back to play a brand new platformer in the same line of the ones in the golden era (BK and BT OFC)!

So here's my feedback about the Toybox:

I'm going to be picky, overall I'd give a 85/100, but there is still a 15% missing for me.

Actually the main problem for me was the overall gameplay. It felt not 100% accurate and smooth like in Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie for example.

1. The first thing that annoyed me as the game started was the rolling move. I hated so much that you slide and have to take LARGE turns, it don't feel like you're in full control when you roll, it didn't felt responsive and precise at all. Maybe it's the goal? The faster you go, the less you have control of your turns? But actually I hate that, I don't have fun at all when the character just don't do what I want and go out of the line I direct him, it just killed my fun. I really hope this move gets polished and will feel more responsive, precise and "in control" in the final game.

2. The swimming gameplay. As I played Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie probably around 20000000 hours, it felt really really weird to have a new and different mechanism for the swimming. It took me some times to understand how it worked and even when I got to understand, I felt like the controls was just weird and not instinctive.

3. The cameras. I don't know why in most of the recent games the camera X axis is always inverted, also that there is no option to change it, but I'd really like to get the option to change it to non-inverted in the final game if possible. Also the way the camera move doesn't feel 100% intuitive and accurate. I think it need to be a little bit polished if possible (maybe that's just a question if the inverted X axis too though). And also, would it be possible to be able to back the camera even further from the characters? I felt like I was a bit too close of them even with the farthest camera position.

So yeah, overall I think the biggest issue I encounter in the toybox was the gameplay. The characters mooves aren't 100% perfect to me. To give you an example, I think the perfect 3D platformer gameplay ever made is still Super Mario 64. The character is sooo responsive and intuitive. He turn around, and move super quickly as you move the stick. He go where you want him to go and is super precise. Banjo-Kazooie was reeeeally good in term of gameplay, but it was a little bit less tight and responsible as Mario 64 was. Then I'd say that for now, Yooka-Laylee is a drop down of the Banjo-Kazooie gameplay. I really hope it gets polished and more precise than what it is right now in the Toybox. I say that word a lot, but I think it's what it needs to be polished the most, the precision. I don't expect the gameplay to be as tight as Mario 64 (even if I'd love it so much), but if it's as good or a bit better than Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie was, I'd be happy as hell!

And my last thoughts, I'm being picky here, as we all want to have the best game as possible out there:

When I saw the trailer, I thought the graphics was not as great as I thought. I think the fact you guys are using Unity doesn't help as it doesn't feel as great as I think you could do with unreal. I know it's way too late in the process to change anything, and to give you an idea, when I saw the 1sts screens of the game last May, I scream of joy because it was so beautiful! I also know that you're still a "small team" and not as big as Rare is right now for example. Maybe it's something to consider for your next game? Also, my last picky thought, the overall look of the props/design/characters/BG, feel like it's not fully consistent. It feels like there was 3 diferent art directors on the project and not one to make it looks like everything is from the same world. I know you guys want to have everyone into the creative process, but I think you should try to be more consistent and constant in your final look. But hey, I'd give a 90% score for the look of the game. As an animation artist myself, I'm just getting picky.

Thank you very much for the amazing game you guys are making and I hope my comments can help to improve the game and will not discourage any of you guys, this is far from my goal! Continue the amazing work and again, thank you so much for doing this game!!

I <3 you Playtonic!

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TOYBOX EXPERIENCE: The Good, The Bad, and the Laylee!

Postby Lugbzurg » Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:35 am

So... the Toybox Experience made a pop-up surprise while I was away on vacation. But I've played through it now, and Inept seemed to want me to give feedback on the official Playtonic forums, so, here ya go, Inept! This is for you!

THE GOOD
I was given a warning ahead of time that the toybox does not support integrated graphics cards. (For those unaware of what this means, these are what comes with every PC that is only meant to run things like YouTube videos and Blu-Ray disks and is in no way intended for processing any serious modern graphics. Just the basic essential visuals your computer needs to display.) As such, I was actually a bit reluctant to download it right away, as that's what I'm currently stuck with, but I gave it a go, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that it actually runs fine! Granted, I have to play it at the lowest graphical settings at 800X600 resolution for it to run smoothly on my end, but it still works well!

Yooka & Laylee show so much personality in their animations. (Doom this year, Yooka-Laylee next year!) I've barely heard a peep out of them, and yet It's plain as day that these two are very close and really care for one another. The way how Laylee bites Yooka and he finds it hilarious or how when Yooka collapses to the ground, Laylee doesn't think twice about pulling him up. These two really care about each other, and I didn't even need an exposition dump to tell me that. Well done.

The platforming has been quite diverse. Natural ledges, levitating platforms, little see-saw things... It's all great! I'd suggest looking at a bit of the Sly Cooper games, if you can. They've done some nice things with 3D platforming (especially with physics-reacting platforms like chandeliers hanging from a ceiling) that I'd love to see around more often.

It's just fun to wander around aimlessly. It really is. Performing that ball roll move is also pretty cool as it clearly feels very different from running normally; feeling like a programming step up from Banjo-Kazooie's Talon Trot.

I like how swimming feels more like controlling a character and less like a swimming tank.

When you're underwater, objects in the distance turn a bit more blue.

Love those little puff clouds.

Inept is hilarious.

Ability/attack animations are delightfully cartoony and physically impossible. I love it!

Gorgeous compositions! Tip-top performances, Grant! What I've heard from David so far has been marvelous, too! Very much looking forward to hearing what Steve's music's gonna sound like for this game!

THE BAD
Controls feel a tad bit slippery. Perhaps just a hair with walking, but this slipperiness is especially prominent with the ball roll move. Granted, I would expect that, given its nature, but it does seem to slip around a bit TOO much. Mostly with rotating and stopping. It got very irritating trying to climb that yellow spiral pyramid with the blue ramps and being all like "Ahh, ok, I'll just slow down and stop before I fall off this ledge. Now, I'll just turn and... OH, NO!" And then Laylee would suddenly speed up and launch Yooka off the pyramid. It happened A LOT. There should be plenty of obstacles. The controls should not be one of them. Stopping and rotating ought to be tightened up a bit, in my opinion. Both with running and rolling.

Trying to roll that pink ball up the ramp was significantly more difficult than it would be to do so in real life. There appears to be just physics and minor collision detection in that thing. Yooka doesn't seem to respond to touching it (or movable crates) at all. It is VERY difficult to move the ball where you want. Yooka would often slip right past it when I was trying to push it up or knock it off to the side. I'd be happy to see this be set up more like rolling up the balls of poo in Conker's Bad Fur Day. Sensible, intuitive, and responsive, but still leaving marginal room for error.

Smashing crates and barrels got really floaty. When they break, the pieces move very slowly and often don't really burst out as much as they probably should.

Camera would sometimes get stuck behind a wall, not move at all, or need to be moved manually for a while from time to time. There would also be points where I'd be standing at a ledge, and the camera only wanted to look down and not allow me to look around.

I've gone through the control configuration to try and make them more comfortable for me, but I've been trying to map the Ball Roll to "X" and it just won't change for some reason. It still forces me to click the mouse (though the tail attack still works on a keyboard button just fine) if I wanna roll. It looks like every other move can be bound to whatever key I want, but for some reason, whenever I boot up the toybox, it always switches Ball Roll back to the left mouse button again. Similarly, I hope the final game doesn't just assume you're using an X-Box ONE controller all the time. I have no desire to use an X-Box ONE controller. I actually WANT to stick with a keyboard. If I wanna use a controller, I'd love to see those USB64 controllers get support.

Quills underwater don't look all distorted/warbly, but everything else does.

This may sound quite a bit odd, but some of the sounds just seem a bit... off. I hate to say it, but I feel like some of the quirks in the audio direction should be toned down a bit. A BIT. It just sometimes feels less like I'm exploring a land of wonderment, and more like I'm stuck in something like Teletubbies, Boo-Bah, or Barney and Friends. Some sounds should probably be changed in the final game. I get that it's supposed to be lighthearted and cartoony, and I definitely want that, but it just sounds a tab bit too fru-fru at times.

Ball Roll animation. Oh, I guess you guys have already been hearing about that. Well, I don't know if anyone's mentioned that Yooka & Laylee don't seem to blink when doing stuff like this. I hope blinking is implemented consistently into their animations.

Yooka can't jump while riding on a "slide". In Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo could jump off of a "slide" weather he was sliding down on his butt or his belly. Plus, anyone could do this in real life. It feels quite a bit restrictive to not be able to do this in the game.

Jumping up into a "doorway" causes Yooka & Laylee to suddenly snap onto the floor in a single frame.

The radius for how far away you can be to talk to NPCs should probably be a little bigger.

Would love a Pagie Dance.

Being caught up in wind should probably cause Yooka to look like his off balance; slipping around, or something like that, rather than just speeding up his animation.

I can hear this faint, consistent grinding-like noise like a bowling ball rolling when using the Ball Roll move. I'd suggest making it little louder. Speaking of Ball Roll sounds, you can still hear the rolling and squeaking even while in the air.

Yooka's feet aren't actually touching Yooka when he rolls into a ball.

Sometimes, when you're given instructions (like when a quill introduces itself or Inept teaches you how to swim), Yooka suddenly stops dead in his tracks and can't move until the other NPC stops talking. Movement should not be taken away like this. When I see a line of collectible quills lined up, the last thing I want is to suddenly be unable to move.

THE LAYLEE
Laylee is cute.

Iko336
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Iko336 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:33 pm

It's pretty good,i liked it and it took me 90 minutes to complete.

The only big problem for me is the camera:it just keep getting stuck on obstacles and walls.

Moving/pushing things i was expecting either an animation to do it or just hitting them with the tail with the basic attack but you just walk into them which seems like you're still working on it.

It'd be nice if swimming up and down was smoother and more fluid and faster.

That last slope is the puzzle that required the most to solve because i didn't realize you can come to a full stop on those slippery slopes when you consider you're rolled into a ball it seems pretty counterintuitive to say the least to stand still on some sort of icy slope.

All things considered i had a blast and i'm sure you'll have the time to fix the current problems;i can't wait to play the full game!Looking forward to it.

EDIT:I forgot to mention the way yooka keep his momentum after jumping and slides off platforms when you barely made it is annoying and it would be great if he could grab ledges.

Riverbui
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Riverbui » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:06 am

Hey! I just wanted to pop by here to say I really enjoyed the toybox and the game played really smoothly with my Gamecube Controller with the official GCN Wii U Adapter.

Though, I noticed while watching others that almost everyone can roll faster than me with other controllers. So, it seems like my analog stick doesn't have enough sensitivity. Though, fixing that likely has nothing to do with the game itself. Maybe the gamecube controller could be made compatible with the Wii U version? If not that's okay.

I'm currently using the GCN USB Adapter Driver, so it's likely an issue with that program and the Unity controller configuration. Though, I figured I'd at least mention it here.

And even if I moved slower, I was still able to complete anything and I had fun.

Grim013
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Grim013 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:22 am

I like what I've been able to play so far, but I've had a rough time with lag/framerate. I've encountered a pretty much unplayable amount of framerate issues. My pc is of moderate quality, but I've had no problems playing other games; it just seems to be the toybox. I'm a little bummed as I can't really play much of the toybox, but I'm still stoked for the full game release!

Kaymon
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Kaymon » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:43 am

Hey, wanted to jump in here and give my critiques as well, just so that they're hopefully seen and taken into consideration like everyone else's suggestions. I LOVE Banjo Tooie and put easily more than 500 hours into it, and I'm hoping Yooka-Laylee is the same way for me once it releases!

The Toybox was promising, there's just a list of things I made that I think can be improved upon:

- The new Talon Trot kind-of ability, Reptile Roll, needs an idle animation made for when you're not moving. This might already be known/getting worked on, but still, Reptile Roll also felt strange overall to me. It has a turn radius, much like a ride-able lawnmower? This might just be something I'll have to get used to though, but maybe I'll always prefer Talon Trot.

- The wooden crates and barrels, when they break up into debris, the weight of each individual physics prop it spawns feels very wrong? Like if you try to push it with your body, it puts up so much of a fight, and in that way it feels bad, like how Sonic '06 handled props and debris or something... And on that note, I feel like the few places that had physics props in the demo, they felt kind-of unnecessary? Like, it's that old argument of 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should' but then again, there'll hopefully be more elegant and interesting implementations of physics props in the final game.

- In the room with the testable floor materials, the water surface material could definitely use more particles to vary between when you're stepping on that kind of floor, like 3-4 different particles to vary between'd be good. Hope they're making a few more for that!

- The screen filter for gameplay underwater is incredibly disorienting? I'd love for you guys to just do something more akin to the Banjo-Kazooie games where it'll just tint the screen blue-ish and not make the screen all gelatin-like? I guess they might want to keep the filter for the sake of an artistic effect they're trying to achieve, but maybe please make it not as strong? It makes it kinda hard to gauge things spacially :v

- The Yooka-Laylee team might want to make the game run the configuration tool the VERY FIRST time booting up rather than giving the choice... When I started, I didn't use the config tool and the game started set at the lowest settings, and how good the game looked when I changed my settings to what they should be honestly kinda turned my slight disappointment 180 degrees around!

- Could you guys make it so the game supports 16:9 when windowed? I don't know why this is, but the highest option for windowed seems to be 1366x768 for me? I use an external program to fullscreen the windowed game, but I notice the upscaling...

- Sometimes it can feel like you're fighting the camera a bit, like during that pink ball physics puzzle? Sometimes the camera will get caught on certain low walls and stuff. The camera actually also gets caught kinda often on the walls in that area with the three box-rooms holding feathers obstructed by glass...

- Also the Reptile Roll animation looks very weird when you're doing it against the wind in the wind-tunnel portions of the toybox, you should look like you're rolling at full speed while rolling against the wind, just not making progress against it, ya know? Instead the animation slows to a snail's pace according to the wind's resistance, and it also looks especially weird when Laylee's feet aren't touching Yooka's body when the roll's animation is halted. This kinda animation problem should definitely get fixed, because Yooka-Laylee is very much the successor to Banjo-Kazooie, which PROBABLY means that just like the Talon Trot, the Reptile Roll is gonna be your main means of quick transportation apart from teleporters in levels! So it should definitely look AS BEST it can!

- You might want to fix up how the game looks when it's loading the next lod-level (Level Of Detail) of level props like, the Aztec-looking structures, into existence. I can see their polycount going up as I move toward them and sometimes it's kinda jarring?

- Yooka-Laylee's art-direction is heavily comprised of cartoon-shaped stuff with almost realistic-textures, and I absolutely LOVE it, and with that I have a suggestion. In the water, I was getting disoriented sorta by that screen filter a bit, but also I noticed that maybe there should be light shining through the water's surface and down on to the floor of the body of water? You know, the way a pool of water would have it, the surface of the water cast by the light onto the floor of the body of water. I think it would look fantastic, the pools lacked this kind of thing in the demo and I thought it was a kind-of missed opportunity.

- Also, there's a part in the demo, once you hit the 100-quill button and after the brief cutaway, the robot is talking to you, and though you can move of your own free will, you can't jump? Pressing "A" or your jump button or what-have-you will only try to skip his dialogue? Maybe change that, I would like to jump and it's not totally necessary to skip that dialogue immediately like that.

These are all the suggestions for quality-of-life improvements I could jot down from my head while playing through the demo a few times throughout the week. I don't claim to know more than anyone about some of this stuff in the game's design, these are just my opinions and suggestions. I'd love for these to be taken into consideration and put to good use. Thanks for reading!

Devscar23
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Devscar23 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:49 am

Reptile Roll Maneuverability
- The main concern about game mechanics I have is the reptile roll's controlling, as it seems like it will be used very often for platforming mechanics as well as for faster movement in general.

- It would feel smoother to turn more on a dime when stationary or very slow. Currently Yooka has to do an entire loop animation around to turn. This can be done in a small loop if the player goes extremely slow, but the natural inclination is to push the analog stick to the max in the direction you want start moving. If Yooka is facing the opposite direction, this causes a big burnout drifting loop before facing the intended direction. This aspect would typically force the player to "dismount" to reliably turn around in tight spaces and then "remount" which can feel tedious, even more so if multiple times in a row (twisting up the toybox tower).

- To remedy this, there could be a lower speed bracket (0-40%?) that can turn much more precisely and maybe also not have the drift effect, while keeping a higher speed roll that has the current handling, drift and all. Perhaps even have the smoke animation + squeaky floor sound effect only play as an indicator while using a high speed roll. You can still design certain ramps and obstacles that require the full speed roll to get past, and for general purposes this would give lower-skilled players a nice option while also keeping a high skill-cap option for speedrunners and experienced players.

jojo88872
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby jojo88872 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:47 am

One major thing is in the texture rooms, the body slam thing always has the same visual effect. A dust cloud coming out. I think for ones such as water and the heavy snow, there should be difference, like a bigger splash on the water, snowflakes popping up in the snow, stuff like that. Just would make it a lot more interesting to play.
Sincerely, Lady Void

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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Rueckkoppler » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:08 pm


YookaLayleeHub
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby YookaLayleeHub » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:00 am

Im going to start off by saying this: THE TOYBOX IS ABSOLUTELY AWESOME, GREAT JOB GUYS!! Now, I made a micro-list on what i would like to change.

1. SWIMMING (Just use the Kazooie/Tooie style of swimming)
2. PUSHING/PULLING ANIMATION (You will probably fix this by the time the game releases)
2. BETTER REPTILE ROLL CONTROLL (During the game I'm sure there will be precise platforming bits)
4. PAGIE DANCE/DANCE FOR COLLECTING ALL QUILLS (You cant forget this!)
5. THE CAMERA (Have the camera be as close to yooka as the camera is to banjo back on the 64)

Other than that, the Toybox is fine.
I definitely agree with most of the people on this Toybox feedback forum.

PS. I do in fact like laylee on top of yooka's head! :D :D :D
Last edited by YookaLayleeHub on Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rocho
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby rocho » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:44 am

Guys how do you feel about the character voices (not sure if this should be a separated topic)

I feel the voices of Yooka and Laylee are a little bit quiet...

I really have a hard time trying to relate the voices with the characters as they don't feel that iconic just yet.


As an example of what I'm trying to say here is a video with voices of Banjo-Kazooie so you guys can compare.

https://youtu.be/nTb_AgGvy0U


And here is a Toybox video:

https://youtu.be/ytpjIJvkQPY

Even when they talked at the end if the E3 trailer 2016 it felt a bit weird.

Maybe that is the feeling Playtonic want to give them but I feel they need to be a little bit more fun and joyful.

What do you guys think?


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