Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
That0neGuy
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby That0neGuy » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:12 pm

I was mid playing when all of a sudden the game crashed and I was no longer able to launch the game. I initially received a "missing executable" error on steam. I tried following their instructions as well as installing the game again. Now I'm just left with an "unknown error" message.

Anyone else having this problem, and do you have solutions?

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Yavga
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Yavga » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:15 pm

Stop picking your nose

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ReturnRare
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby ReturnRare » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:18 pm

Swimming:
I also had some trouble getting used to the swimming. I wonder if they could add an option to let you swim like in the N64 titles, unless there are going to be additional aquatic moves in the game that rely on this new control scheme.

Pushing:
The pushing physics need to be fixed so that Yooka actually grabs on object and has a good grip on it when pushing it around instead of awkwardly walking into it. It was also tempting to jump on the ball and roll it around like Laylee does to Yooka. The large wooden on the one floating island area also felt way too light. It felt like I could've knocked it over the boarder and off the island if I tried hard enough.

Terrain:
In the ToyBox +'s hidden terrain room the game was missing animations for rolling on different surfaces. The blue puddle creates ripples when you walk on it but not when you roll on it

Sound:
I understand them not getting the aquatic theme in there but I wish that the speech would speed up instead of stopping when you skip through dialogue just like the Banjo games.

Graphics: I had it on fastest quality and I only encountered frame drops once. The models look kinda N64-esque with lower quality. But for some reason it only made Yooka & Kaylee noticeably different to me when the NPCs kinda looked the same.

Controls: A slight bit of lag for me with the wireless 360 controller. The Reptilian Roll took a bit to get used to. There were also some parts where the spring jump glitched and I could do it in midair when I was against the wall of an object. I don't know how to explain it because it happens so quickly and rarely. It was also tempting to try to ground pound an enemy but that was hard to pull off and didn't award you with any add damage to the tougher hat minions. In the final game there may be a shockwave attack when you ground pound to get those baddies easier.

Camera: I agree that it needs a but more work but overall it's a lot more free than Banjo-Kazooie's controls were since we have it mapped to its own stick now. I also think that Yooka & Kaylee should have their silhouettes visible when an object is obstructing your view of them.

Overall it was great! I was surprised at how well it ran even on my art teacher dad's Board of Education-provided laptop! Even the higher qualities functioned albeit with a tiny sacrifice of frame rate.

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GruntMaster
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby GruntMaster » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:22 pm

Loved the toybox! A few things worth noting:

If I jump into a door, the game will snap me back to the ground and show me walking into it. A simple fix would be to wait for the character to fall before doing the walking animation.

One of the particles in the secret room lags like crazy if the camera gets too close to it. Hard to describe it except as the "most complex" particle in the room.

When in "rolling mode", I can hold down the trigger but not move, and the animation stays frozen in place. Might want to add an idle animation while in rolling mode.

I thought it was interesting how this game uses different swimming mechanics than Banjo-Kazooie, etc. Was this intentional? The current mechanics actually resemble Pac-man world 2 currently... I suppose they are alright, I just have to get used to them. It just seems less fluid to me, compared to the other Rare platformers.

That's all I can think of for now. Great work, Playtonic!

GruntMaster
Last edited by GruntMaster on Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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keyboard_tapper
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby keyboard_tapper » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:24 pm

I love the controls so far only the swimming feels a bit strange atmo....

Lufkin
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Lufkin » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:41 pm

The only major thing for me was the swimming controls too. I think for little pools of water like what we have in the Toybox, the controls are not too bad, but if there's a "water" world with lots of swimming, especially when dealing with precise swimming like dodging underwater enemies or things like the "key" in Clanker's Cavern, it will get annoying. I'd prefer something like Banjo-Kazooie.

A way to do sharp turns underwater (like in Banjo by pressing the R button) would be nice too.

Flickosaur
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Flickosaur » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:46 pm

Just fully completed the Toybox, and had tons of fun! It feels so good to be playing this kind of game again. I especially liked how open the environment was and the sense of adventure it created.

However, to add to add some of the criticism:

- As stated above, the rolling move needs an idle animation for when the pair stop moving, as when this happens, they are completely devoid of any animation. Also, when Yooka jumps while in this form, he has little animation and makes no sound when he lands. Maybe a little squash and stretch and additional sound effects will make this feel more alive.

- I felt like the seesaw platforms were harder to navigate then they should be. Maybe this could be resolved by having a more zoomed out, or completely still camera for tricky platforming segments. (I seem to remember the camera being like this in Mario Galaxy)

- The swimming controls need work, as they feel quite clunky. I felt like I often ended up swimming too high or too low with each button input, and needed more control.

I think that wraps it up, I'm sure the rest of my criticisms have already been mentioned(Yooka needs a pushing animation, like Banjo in N&B)
But overall, I was very impressed! I can't wait for the full release.

Afevis
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Afevis » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:53 pm

Isometric view is definitely my prefered angle over the top-down view.
Last edited by Afevis on Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Flickosaur
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Flickosaur » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:02 pm

I really do hope that Playtonic resolve the chest jumping, infinite free falling glitch; I don't want to be able to cheat my way up normally unscalable slopes in the final game. :?

BetterWithButter
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby BetterWithButter » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:12 pm

Nearly everything about it felt great! Played with Maxed out settings at 1920x1080, Xbox 360 controller, ran flawlessly.

I'll go back and replay it to find more secrets sometime (got 100 Quills, Pagie, Ghost Writer, and one secret, but apparently there's a few more!).

Controls Feedback

The walking/rolling/jumping controls were excellent, the double jump is very natural and gives you that extra boost to clear small platform jumps, you can act out of moves quickly, and being able to spring jump into flutter jump is genius.

Animations look very natural, such as when turning rapidly or making an abrupt stop. Love the little touches like Laylee picking up Yooka after a nasty fall or their idle animations.

Acting out of the Ground Pound is a little stiff like other users said, since you do have to wait for the full animation to finish before acting. Being able to act out of it sometime after the initial slam but before the animation is done wouldn't be so bad!

Also, swimming did feel a bit awkward, being able to dive/rise is fine enough, but you rise a little too much for each button press. Toning it down a little would be nice. Also would be nice if you had a "swim faster" button option as well, or just revise them like the XBLA Banjo ports like other users here have suggested.

Camera Feedback

The "Hold R" to snap to Y-L's back worked great, and it really didn't give me too many issues. Was easy to look around and enjoy the view from the top of the level or make micro-adjustments. I definitely liked the second of the top down angles for the glass box pushing puzzle, the more isometric one?

Misc. Criticisms Feedback

My only two complaints are some of the sound effects and some of the physics. The boxes breaking looks awkward, I'd much rather they explode in a cartoony fashion or something. It's not that big a deal, but it is a bit unsatisfying when the boxes break and they just crumple inward. Pushing things was also awkward, if it's possible to get in a pushing animation for Yooka that would be great rather than his nose doing all the work!

And while every voice related sound effect sounds perfect (Yooka, Laylee, little robo dude, the Ghost Writer and that cool echo effect, and the Pagie collect soundbit and sparkles), and of course, the music was great, some of the sound effects sound cheap, namely the spring jump and the Quill collect sound. I'd much prefer that the spring sound be taken out and have a big "HOO-HAH!" like in B-K, or pitch it down a bit?

Many if not MOST of the sound effects come off subtle and naturally, like the fluttering of Laylee's wings, the footsteps, the wind, the rolling move, but then the higher pitched sounds stand out as cheap in comparison. Of course, it's still a Pre-Alpha build and is supposed to sound cartoony, maybe pitching them down or adding a little bass to them somehow to round out.

All in all, REALLY enjoyed this, only 30-40 minutes of play but I didn't even notice the time fly by. Amazing how a bunch of blocks can still feel immersive when the game feels so good to control! Thanks for the hard work and chance to test it out!
Last edited by BetterWithButter on Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Plebber
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Plebber » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:15 pm

I loved Yooka's controls. Running around felt smooth and really responsive to me (even when using a 3rd party software to enable me to use a PS3 controller). When I was watching the gameplay videos and trailers long before the toybox release I was pretty skeptic about the rolling. In my mind I was agonizing over how wonky the controls could be, however playing the toybox quickly dispelled my skepticism. The rolling controlled perfectly and the change from running to rolling and vice versa happened smoothly and fast. Rolling around was just plain fun.

This being said, there are 2 things which stood out to me.
1. The swimming.
The swimming felt really slow, especially when it's compared to the roll, but it's also slow compared to the regular running I feel. Yooka's turning when diving further down, or swimming up towards the surface seems to also be a tad slow, which makes it a bit difficult to swim precisely where I want to in my opinion.

2. changing between rolling and running
When changing between rolling and running I was often caught off guard with how it didn't let me go straight into jumping when I stopped my rolling and went back to regular running (which often resulted in me falling to my death), but rather forcing me to stop for a second and then allow me to jump made for a really harsh and sudden halt in speed and flow of the character.

As for the camera angle question in the toybox, I preferred the top down view. When it comes to these kinds of puzzles I like to have everything in plain view so I can more easily plan my actions, and also so I can be sure I don't miss out on any of the beautiful scenery.

DrewScroll
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby DrewScroll » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:17 pm

I loved the Toybox experience! I had a blast playing it! I enjoyed completely the movesets, the ghost writer, the music change depending on the scenario, and the texture and particle room! Let me inform you about some of the things that I found to be curious in the game.

-The animations for Yooka and Laylee are impressive, though I am worried about the idle animation, where Laylee bites of Yooka's... ear? Well Yooka's lower eyelids look weird when Laylee bites him. I don't think it was meant to look like that.

-Another bit in the animation is when Yooka swims with his face upwards. The neck looks a bit weird and stretched, just letting you know about those things.

-I found a small bug when you make a high jump, if you are running on a platform, then prepare yourself to make a high jump while you are close to falling, if you fall, the animation for the high jump repeats itself. As in, once you fall, Yooka makes the jump, but after doing so, it makes another jump over an invisible platform (which I am aware that there are none).

-About the camera angle, I liked the eagle fixed view from the first area, the second is good, but, to me, it can be a bit annoying.

-The swimming controls may need a little fix since it's rare, to me, the use of the buttons to dive down or rise up underwater. I can understand the use of the button to dive underwater, but once you dive, using the buttons to dive yourself lower underwater is a bit clunky.

-I think Yooka needs a pushing animation since it feels like he is using his face to push (XD). But also a bit on the pushing physics, sometimes I feel like the crates slide a bit longer than normal ones.

-The rolling could use an idle animation so it won't look like the characters are frozen in place.

-Inside the texture room, when you use any move except the walk, there are no effects over some terrains.

-I also noticed some stretching elements on the characters while performing moves. I think you'll notice them on the following link: https://www.dropbox.com/home/Yooka-Laylee%20Toybox

I think these are all the issues that I could find. Hope they are of use to all of you!
Last edited by DrewScroll on Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DarkTone
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby DarkTone » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:17 pm

404 error.

ToastedBagel
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby ToastedBagel » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:22 pm

i dont know if this is normal, but moving the camera stick down on my controller causes the rolling to start. its probably because of my controller, but i was wondering if anyone else was having this issue. im having fun even though this issue makes me want to yell. great job so far, glad i backed.

~~~~~~~~ edit ~~~~~~~~~~
it was my controller, switching to a new one fixed my issue. boy do i feel dumb XD

dezm0nd
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby dezm0nd » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:31 pm

Just a quick post with some thoughts.

Really well placed collectibles - felt logical, draw distance helped, too!
Smart level design with fun platforming controls
The turning radius of what is basically Talon Trot felt a little too punishing to me, especially on the tower of slides.
The see-saws don't have enough weight to them and often fell off.
Loved the music changing. Very subtle to the point where I didn't even notice it until later on in the playthrough.
Environmental changes affecting character is fun even if the animation when being pushed about looked off.

Overall, a solid early look at the game. Well done and here's to a quality product next year!

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karashata
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby karashata » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:32 pm


ConRitter
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby ConRitter » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:45 pm


DragonSix
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby DragonSix » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:07 pm

Just a few remarks from a fellow dev:

The camera is weird.
It's as if it is treated as an object with an absolute travel time, when the easier approach would to simply put the camera at the rotation angle you want and test collisions with an instant raycast. That way the camera wouldn't get stuck like it does right now. I guess there is a reason why it isn't done like so, but I don't really understand what would be worth getting the camera kind of stuck at angles so often.

Also, I'm pretty impressed with how you tamed mecanim (if it is still mecanim that you're using), the animation transitions feel pretty responsive. I hope you're aware of the Animator.CrossFadeInFixedTime function, which lets you transition to a state directly in code without having to deal with any of the graph bollocks.

I found the page but I did not find the last switch, I searched all over but still no dice, can anyone care to tell me where it is?

edit: corrected the animator function name
Last edited by DragonSix on Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Pisuke85
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby Pisuke85 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:08 pm

Like many other people, I faced difficulties with the swimming controls. One might use the jump or attack buttons to perform breaststroke while choosing a direction with the control stick, it would be easier I guess. And the horizontal axis for camera should be reversed, I was mistaken countless times.

Nevertheless, this Toybox is an impressive achievement… Thank you so much!

MrFoogy
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Re: Toybox feedback & discussion thread (SPOILERS)

Postby MrFoogy » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:09 pm



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