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Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:22 am
by GF-REX
I like the Y-L swimming controls. Once I figured it out, it became easy enough. I typically don't enjoy swimming in 3D games, but this is something I can dig. :mrgreen:

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:05 pm
by BlackKoromon

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:14 am
by Bingo675

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:49 am
by BlackKoromon
Hard to learn, no. Hard to control, most definitely. Trying to use warp pads in Jolly Rodger Bay, for example, was absolutely infuriating and involved a good deal of shouting at Jam Jars for being able to tell I wanted to warp but not warping me (dumb mole). Similarly, Rusty Bucket Bay's turbine jiggy was impossible, not because of the buttons but simply because I'd headbutt the underside of the boat time and again until I rage quit.

The lack of having to precisely angle myself in an imprecise control scheme for every little action is a vast improvement IMO.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:47 pm
by Jewishhoser
I personally hated the swimming. Everything else was perfect, but the swimming felt like it had less control, and less skill involved. I always use this as an example, would clunkers cavern have been as memorable with these controls? I say no. When all you have to do is control one plain and not worry about anything else, it makes it feel very boring and broken. If it wasn't broken then don't fix it. I loved everything else though, and I'm still happy I backed the game!

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:05 pm
by Bingo675

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:49 pm
by YookaLayleeHub
Personally I think Platonic needs to convert back to the original style of swimming, its just second nature by now. I also believe it will add to the overall experience. I mean, why change it when you had it perfect the first time! :)

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:53 am
by BlackKoromon
I don't know what the buttons are mapped to on a controller so can't say how difficult using both sticks would be but, on PC, waggling a mouse and holding forward to control yourself is super easy. Way easier than the rest of the game with keyboard controls.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:41 pm
by mrlafle
I don't mind the swimming mechanics now, but I'd really like the option to swim faster by tapping A or something. That would just make swimming a lot more interesting than just holding the stick up and waiting.

And as far as music goes... the underwater music MUST be a remixed version of the level theme, and not just a "muffled" version! That really made the toybox feel more like Nuts & Bolts than Banjo-Kazooie, at least for me.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:52 pm
by GeneralWalnut

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:49 pm
by Devscar23
- The current toybox swim system definitely controls better (or at least has the potential to). Being able to control swim speed with an analog stick from slow-medium+ makes movement much more precise than the old controls felt.

- My one concern is with the height controls (swim up/down) and how long the period is to snap back to horizontal swimming. If that had a shorter recover time, it would make the toybox controls have a much better feeling. A faster swim speed option should be added though, probably with holding a button rather than tapping as it would match the current style better.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:04 pm
by Meinhard1
Definitely don't mind the swimming controls now that I'm used to them. They really do allow for a certain level of precision.

Still every decision has its pros and cons and there's definitely a loss of that sense of full 360 degree movement.
In my mind the "gold standard" is Mario Galaxy's swimming -- a strong camera, freedom of movement, sense of speed

Also worth noting is that many of us have a bias. We've all wrested with underwater sections in 3D platformers over the years and are quite accustomed to the more traditional control method

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:51 pm
by GeneralWalnut

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:46 am
by SamfromLA
Hey there, just thought I'd add my two cents and agree with what seems to be the consensus so far: the swim feature needs major improvement.

I was blown away by how otherwise incredible the Toybox Demo experience was. It was as thought my wildest dreams had come true! The game felt just like Banjo-Tooie in just about every way, and I mean that in the best sense possible. It had all the wonderful traits that I loved when I played Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie as a kid and gave me a rush of nostalgia combined with excitement for the future.

The one aspect that was jarringly non-excellent was the swimming function. I found it impossible to simply swim in a straight line underwater. No matter what I did, the controls were horrendously imprecise, non-responsive, and seemed to constantly result in me swimming directly down with my face bumping into the floor. To be honest, it is easier to swim forward underneath actual water than the water in the game. The function just did not work and was deeply frustrating, to the point that if I had to play a level that required skillful navigation underwater, I would probably rage quit in frustration.

I'm writing today in the hopes that the developers are reading these posts and can actually make improvements to the game before it's ready for release. The swimming feature was the only blemish on the otherwise amazing experience I had in the demo. It's the only criticism I have, but it's a major point for me because of how frustratingly ineffective it was. I would be incredibly happy with a return to Kazooie/Tooie-style swimming, and I think it would make the experience perfect.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:18 am
by WyvernWings
Anyone play Rayman 2 (not the PS1 version)? The swimming controls in the Toybox are very much the same as in that game, down to the control layout.
I guess because I played Rayman 2 a lot I suppose that's why I've gotten good at the swim controls in the Toybox.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:22 pm
by brabel
one detail that I wanted to point out is the swimming animations of the mouth of laylee.... YES im talking about something that trivial. Have Laylees's mouth closed theres no difference between them on land and in water as far as animations maybe this is just an early demo thats why it dont have that detail.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:22 am
by Jinjo
The swimming controls from Banjo Kazooie/Tooie are the best. Yooka-Laylee should follow the same path in this case. In the opening stages of the game Yooka should swim like Banjo did in BK, then they should learn a move that allows Laylee to help with the swimming, like in Tooie. If they wanted to it would also open up room for some more ideas with pagies that can only be reached with the improved swimming. At the very least it's just a much better control system.

The swimming controls from the toybox were dreadful. Not only that, but the controls in general were bad. Even YL's version of 'talon trot' is horrendous. Felt really out of control. (I don't care if it's 'supposed to'. It shouldn't supposed to in the first place. The visuals will give the feeling of being out of control. It's a game and the controls should be tight). The tighter controls of Banjo Kazooie's talon trot is far better. In addition to these problems, the animations look bad too. It feels so odd going around with Laylee on your head - the hidden style of Kazooie in the back pack worked far better.

Re: Let's Talk Swimming

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:53 am
by Piet
BT's swimming mechanism was the by far best (more subtle than BK's)! :)