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Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:18 am
by prizna
I know the game isn't complete and that there will be more added by release and that these suggestions may already be planned, but I just wanted to throw a few things out there that I would like for the Ball Roll.

Jump out of Ball Roll

There were many times while playing the Toybox where I just naturally rolled to an edge, expecting to be able to jump and then glide to the next platform, unfortunately it doesn't seem possible in the Toybox.

No sound when jumping in Ball Roll

This is very minor and im sure its planned but, it just seems odd to have no sound when Yooka Jumps in the Ball Roll.

Release right trigger if already moving

I feel that you should be able to release the right trigger and still move in the Ball Roll after you have started moving.

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:04 pm
by Punksthetic
My only real suggestion would be to give it more controllability like Kazooie's talon trot, because the way they use it now, it's not useful in scaling a mountain, say... However, it's good if you just want to go somewhere quickly without much precision. *Precision* is the key word here.

I realize it's probably a little late in development to sort out a different move more in line with the talon trot, but in that game, it gave you a clear advantage of speed and precision. In this game, it seems to be a trade-off situation, where you sacrifice precision for speed.

Still, I like the move and would like to see it in the final game, I would just ask that the levels be designed with the move in mind, and not like that mountain scaling situation that people (including myself) had a lot of trouble with... We should be using it to scale up *wide* slopes, racing, going from point A to point B without much trouble, and barreling through enemies (which I noticed wasn't a feature in the Toybox).

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:29 pm
by Taylor

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:33 pm
by Nanirourou
I actually rather like the lack of precision. It just comes with the move, and encourages mastery of the Reptile Roll. If it were more precise there'd be no reason to ever walk, since it'd be so vastly superior. I found myself rolling most of the time anyway.

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:07 am
by BanjoThreeie

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:44 am
by DoctorNick
My problem with the Ball Roll is this:

Its a move that trades off precision for speed. However, based on the Toybox, the designers seem intent on using it in places where precision is needed to make jumps and turns. It doesn't really make sense, and it makes platforming sections with steep hills harder than they should have to be. Getting up that tower in the the toybox with the steep hills was really frustrating, because I knew that it would be way easier if I could use the normal walking mechanics, but the game forced me to use a mechanic that was much less precise.

It is a bit late in the development to change a core mechanic, but I think the developers have to do some rethinking on this, or it's going to lead to more frustrated players down the line.

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:00 am
by SullyTheStrange

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:14 am
by Nanirourou

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:35 am
by DoctorNick

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:49 am
by GeneralWalnut

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:02 am
by Punksthetic
For all the people claiming they like the move when scaling the "spiral mountain," despite how imprecise it is, and that it's a cool move that requires "skill" to pull off, let me put it this way to you... Challenge and discipline of skill is one thing. But in the name of a certain meme, if you give me boxing gloves to pick a grape off the floor, that's not really a fair challenge, because you're deliberately handicapping me. Give me a pair of tongs (a more precise, exacting mechanic than just using your hands) and then you have a more fair skill challenge.

To put it another way, if I gave you this game and told you you couldn't do spring jumps the whole way through, I'm sure you could play it, but you have to admit that giving you more control would make the job a lot easier and FAIR. That's the key word here. A fair challenge.

I can keep this going. How about you skate on ice with just your socks? See how that works for you. Still a cool challenge, or do you wish you had some sort of invention that allowed you to gracefully slice through the ice at a quick and elegant pace?

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:03 am
by DoctorNick

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:19 am
by GWoolly

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:25 am
by prizna
I think another thing that needs to be thought of and I know this wasn't in the toybox, but if the trailer is correct the Ball Roll will use up energy, this in itself will make things even harder, giving you a time limit, meaning that taking it slow will not always be an option for more precise movement.

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:26 am
by Wuturu
I feel it's kinda weird that you stay in ball form when you have no speed. I think it's better for the duo to return in normal mode when having a very low speed, otherwise you can just stand still on slopes when in ball form which feels weird

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:09 am
by prizna

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:14 am
by GWoolly

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:27 pm
by Exaskryz
Here's the impression I'm getting from these posts:

1) Players want one movement mechanic that is superior to all others. Thinking about which mechanic to use is not desirable.

2) If they do think about which they'd prefer, and the game prevents their preferred option, they get upset at having to do a challenge.

3) Challenges should be beatable with no prior attempts - failure cannot be tolerated.

I think the trade-off between methods of transportation is great, and am excited to see speedrunners put it to get use. Watching Kazooie talon trot and jump all day does get boring ;)

On a different note, I do agree that rolling down slopes needs to happen. In fact, your speed in ball roll should be slower the steeper the slope is, such that it would make turning at corners of slopes a lot easier to do. That would solve some of the gripes of players overshooting and having to restart their ascent.

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:57 pm
by BanjoThreeie

Re: Ball Roll Suggestions

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:04 pm
by Punksthetic