Page 1 of 2

Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:20 am
by ShanPen
Since Inept asked for feedback on the camera angles used in the box pushing maze in the Toybox, I thought it would make it a bit easier for Playtonic to see the feedback if it was compiled into one easy topic for them to look at, rather than having to search through all the long posts in the general Toybox feedback topic.

So, which camera view did you prefer?

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:29 am
by WyvernWings
I liked the angled view. The way it sidled as I moved within the maze reminded me a lot from the Castle Courtyard in OOT...

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:31 am
by GeneralWalnut
Was a fan of room 3, dynamic and it conveys a lot of necessary info without giving it all away

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:40 am
by ShanPen
I like room 2 best, because I like being able to see my surroundings.

I always used the most zoomed out view in the Banjo games, because the standard view feels too claustrophobic to me (the closeness of the camera to Yooka and Laylee in the Toybox also made me feel like this; I was constantly fighting with the camera to try to zoom it out [and then have it stay there] as far as possible).

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:53 am
by WyvernWings

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:08 am
by ShanPen

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:46 am
by chiguinoki
I think the animation of the camera in that part should be way smoother. Instead of just stopping, it should have an ease in/out animation. It ends and starts too harshly.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:53 am
by Tamashii7
Room 3's camera for me. It had a nice balance of information being shown to the player and it reminded me of King's Sandybutt's Maze from Gobi's Valley in Banjo Kazooie.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:38 am
by Nanirourou
I guess the camera views can be situational. I like angles 2 and 3 both. I can imagine either would be better depending on the task. Generally I prefer the isometric view though, so voting for 3

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:13 am
by Punksthetic
Isometric was the most immersive and least distracting. I would only ask for a way to rotate the camera around. Seems pretty simple to me.

CONS of the other two:
-Top Down is the least engaging, and ill-fitting for a platformer.
-Close-up is claustrophobic and clunky in tight spaces.

To take reference from Banjo-Kazooie, if you take a location like Treasure Trove Cove's sandcastle (a fairly small environment), you had a free camera that never felt glitchy or claustrophobic. Then you had the area in Gobi's Desert with the character flip panels that had mostly one-point perspective that followed Banjo around. Either of these is fine, but it really does depend on the context. For the flip panels, visual memory sort of requires that "locations" of these panels remain stationary in relation to the player's viewpoint. A free camera worked in the sandcastle because the letters were all out in the open and all that needed focus was Banjo performing moves wherever he went... They were pretty smart with how they made that game. lol I only ask they take similar steps with this game and use cameras in the best ways possible to suit any given situation.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:48 am
by valenthin
Using different camera angles is fun, I guess, using the same all the time can be boring.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:40 pm
by Lyfae
I feel like the best option as it is now would be top-down, because it's the more practical of all. But I think isometric view with ability to turn the angle would be even better. Isometric was more immersive than top-down, but one single point of view can be a hindrance depending on the level.

One thing that surprised me most is how the camera angle would change depending on where you entered the maze. I expected the top-down view to be the same all the time but if you enter the room from the exit, you have a different point of view. Nothing terrible, but I found that distracting.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:11 am
by Pearcinator
Top-Down view muted the sound effect when I played. Isometric is best.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:50 am
by Cube
I think the third view with added user camera rotation would be perfect.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:23 am
by twodeeboy
Just here to agree that I prefer the 3rd viewpoint. 2nd is okay, 1st is claustrophobic and not really that user friendly.

Cube's idea is great though - #3 with the ability to rotate the camera, even if it's limited to a given range or set to 90 degree rotation, would be helpful depending upon the situation

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:46 pm
by Aeralis
I liked the top-down view the most overall. I thought the isometric view looked the nicest and was still plenty serviceable for the puzzle, but with those two Quills right there the camera angle made me instantly nervous that I could have been missing more Quills due to them hiding behind the scenery. And while that's not immediately such a bad thing, it DOES immediately give the player the feeling that the game could be withholding information from them due to graphical choices. (That's how I felt anyway, and when I was at 99 Quills that puzzle room was the first place I backtracked to to look for that last missing Quill.)

So that's why I preferred the birds-eye view: It immediately gives you everything you need to know about that room and prevents you from having to manually search behind every wall for pickups or secrets.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:04 am
by ReturnRare
Is it just me or did the top-down view make it feel like you were moving much faster? It literally felt like I was zipping around the room. It was so fun.

I liked both the top-down view and the isometric view for close quarter areas. The behind-the-back view felt constricting but that intense feeling would be perfect for maze areas where you're hunting or being hunted. Not being able to know what's around the corner really adds suspense. It kinda reminds me of the FPS sections of Banjo-Tooie.

The isometric is best for puzzle sections but I think it'd be really cool and useful if you can adjust the view to unveil secrets like in Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker.

Since the bird's-eye view lets you run around without anything blocking your view I think it could be good for chasing items that move around on you like the Ghost Writer that was shown in the demo. You could try wrangling him into a corner so that you can catch him. It could also be fun for competitive mini games if they want to do something similar to Mr. Vile's eating contest.

Since these camera angles are going to be more or less useful depending on the situation I really hope that they add them all in so we can experience to the fullest what each one has to offer. After all, variety is a big part of what Rareware was about. Variety is the spice of life and that spice is an important ingredient in the Rareware recipe book.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:42 am
by Tomato
I'm totally all in favor of the isometric camera with rotation added. Perhaps also a bit closer to the player. Just a bit closer.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:56 am
by GeneralWalnut
I'm for some rotation in certain instances but I also have no issues with a fixed camera in others. It really depends on the context for a lot of that stuff but I was fine with the isometric view as it was in the toybox.

Re: Toybox Box-Maze Camera Angles

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:56 am
by Lugbzurg
Honestly, I didn't even really notice this so-called "Extreme Close-Up".

I definitely think those other two camera angles should BOTH be used. Just in different situations. And I think I know how.

The dead-on fixed camera angle would be appropriate for oppressive (spooky, prison, industrial, etc.) environments, as well as archaic/retro environments (like if Yooka & Laylee were to walk inside an 8-bit arcade machine or something like that).

The moving isometric camera should probably be used more generally, in any areas with grass, sand, snow, etc. It feels more dynamic, flowing, and free.

These two camera angles evoke different moods, and I really think they ought to be used as such.