Ledge grabbing?

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!

Should ledge grabbing be included in the game?

Ledge grabbing should be in the game
32
63%
Ledge grabbing should not be in the game
7
14%
No opinion
12
24%
 
Total votes: 51

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Tamashii7
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Ledge grabbing?

Postby Tamashii7 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:43 pm

What do you think of the lack of ledge grabbing in the toybox? Do you think the game is better off without it? Should the player only be able to ledge grab very particular parts of the environment? I'm a little conflicted because on one hand, the inclusion of ledge grabbing would create more opportunities for interesting gameplay and a variety of ways to explore the environment. On the other hand, ledge grabbing could make the platforming too easy and forgiving and it could be difficult to implement the mechanic this late in development.
Last edited by Tamashii7 on Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:12 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Punksthetic
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Re: Ledge grabbing

Postby Punksthetic » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:45 pm

Yes... I'm really not for this "stunting the player's abilities = challenge" train of thought a lot of people seem to be going with.

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BanjoThreeie
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Re: Ledge grabbing

Postby BanjoThreeie » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:48 pm

The game's way too far in development to implement this ability. It'd take way too much time to rebalance the jumps. I can see why they decided not to go with it, though. It was a huge pain in Super Mario 64 and, to a lesser extent, Banjo-Tooie, when you tried walking off a ledge only to end up turning around and grabbing it by accident.

GeneralWalnut
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby GeneralWalnut » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:36 pm

I think at this point in games it's almost expected, no? I think it may still be in the final game as a power-up, maybe using his tongue to grab nearby ledges a-la Gex (that's 2 times I've brought up Gex on this board and I am very sorry for it).

I don't think it will make or break anything, as I think Banjo Kazooie is perfectly playable without it, but my preference would be for such an ability to be present.

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dotEXE
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby dotEXE » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:41 pm

While I was playing I thought yes, but now a few hours later I'm in the No camp. The developers would have designed the areas around ledge grabbing had they wanted it in the game. They want us to play with a specific set of skills, so the game has that specific set.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if climbing is somehow involved at somempoint... Chameleons are EXTREMELY adept at climbing. Maybe ledge grabbing just wasn't in the Toybox. Lots of skills weren't!
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Nanirourou
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Nanirourou » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:51 pm

Well, Banjo-Tooie gave solo Banjo a ledge grab, but it was an acquired move. I'd be willing to bet that it's something you can learn from Trowzer. It won't effect how much I enjoy the game if there isn't one, though.
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Tamashii7
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Tamashii7 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm


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Nanirourou
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Nanirourou » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:36 pm

Can you add a third option for "no opinion?" I'm not for or against ledge grabbing. I think a platformer can be fun with or without it. If there's no ledge grab, it's likely intentional and we're supposed to navigate other ways.
you kuh lady

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Tamashii7
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Tamashii7 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:14 am


Lyfae
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Lyfae » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:47 am

I voted for ledge grabing, because it's almost always available in platforming games now, and with the current movement controls the lack of it was a bit frustrating. Mostly because I kept rolling of edges and had trouble switching to glide to come back, and because I kept jumping and keeping the button pressed expecting to glide ... when you actually need to double jump to glide.

Without those movements issues though, I have no definite opinion on if ledge grabbing should or should not be in the game.

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Scrubber
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Scrubber » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:59 am

Ledge grabbing comes in Two-ka-Laylee.

smallpoly
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:50 pm

Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby smallpoly » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:56 pm

I'd say ledge grabbing makes sense both from a gameplay perspective (I was kind of surprised it wasn't in) and thematically - lizards climb and hang down from all sorts of stuff.

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Yavga
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Yavga » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:04 pm

Stop picking your nose

Pirulo
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Pirulo » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:32 am

Definitely not!

I think it would make the game a lot easier. They just need to adjust a little bit the double jump.
Last edited by Pirulo on Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

playtonicrarevival
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby playtonicrarevival » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:13 am

I definitely found it difficult to determine at a glance which ledges required a spring jump and which just needed a double jump. I could definitely see missing a bunch of jumps in the first couple levels, then spring jumping everywhere for the rest of the game because I'm worried I'm going to miss by a pixel and that could get annoying real fast.

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Crownless
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Crownless » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:27 am

If the final game is designed with ledge grabbing in mind, I wouldn't mind it as an ability.

However, I don't think it's necessary if it's not. I had no issues with the jumping in the Toybox.

GeneralWalnut
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:06 am

Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby GeneralWalnut » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:54 am

The main sort of argument I could see for ledge grabbing would be that it kind of adds another layer of the characters interacting with the world in a believable way, which helps with their goal of modernizing the 3D platformer.

Looking at other games you see a lot of stuff being done as far as streamlining movement. A lot of those games are also not explicitly platformers and have different goals, but small interactions with the environment like that do add a lot.

I think even something like a quick clamber, or a short step up, where if Yooka is close enough he'll automatically step up and onto the platform, could go a long way. I don't think something like that would necessarily require drastic redesigning, but could go a long ways towards alleviating some of the "missed it by a pixel" frustration.

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Tomato
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Tomato » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:19 am

I voted no. I don't see it as necessity. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy ledge climbing, I also miss it.

However, at this point in development, there are more pressing matters. It takes a lot of time and play-testing to add a new mechanic like that. It's not vital to the gameplay they're going for. I wouldn't want them to hastily add it in and risk it being a sloppy or glitchy mechanic.

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karashata
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby karashata » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:21 pm

I voted "No Opinion", but that's only because my opinion is more complicated than a simple "yes it should be" or "no it shouldn't be".

I could see it being implemented as an ability that has to be learned somewhat later in the game, to be able to make it up to heights even the spring jump on its own can't reach, as well as to make other jumps somewhat easier after learning the ability. However, I don't think Playtonic should add the ability if they haven't already planned for it, as it would be a lot of work to modify everything to take it into account, or it could make any tricky jumps without it too easy with it.

I suppose it could be implemented through a tonic that the player has to drink to get the ability, as part of that whole "setting your own difficulty and play style" thing that tonics will allow for.

Pokemaniac Dan
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Re: Ledge grabbing?

Postby Pokemaniac Dan » Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:45 pm

I think thematically it has to be incorporated. Yooka is a chameleon, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a move learned later on.

If in the event that ledge grabbing is not in the final game, I wont be disappointed. As others pointed out, that didn't hinder the experience of BK.


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