Concerns of quality?

Discussion and feedback for Playtonic's debut game, platformer adventure game Yooka-Laylee!
WyvernWings
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Concerns of quality?

Postby WyvernWings » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:55 pm

Compared to the almost unanimously positive reception Yooka Laylee got from initial impressions from the Toybox, EGX and other demonstrations a few months ago, I have seen now that a lot of people have been less excited and more nervous/cynical about the games quality, such as predicting mediocre review scores, negatively comparing it to Banjo Kazooie, declaring why 3D platformers of this formula have no place in today's market, using DK64 as an example etc etc.

Do you feel it as well? Why is that?
Is it due to the History of Kickstarter games? Is it Mighty No. 9 syndrome? The Wii U cancellation? Unity? Maybe the disappointing Capital Cashino/Multiplayer footage flip-flopped everyone's enthusiasm perhaps?
Or am I just browsing the wrong places? I haven't seen any videos of the game besides trailers and I'm still rather laid back about the game, so I wouldn't know.
Anyway if you feel that way or if you have a hunch as to why, tell me.

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Rasmusic
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Rasmusic » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:41 pm

I feel exactly like you do.

I think people tend to be critical of new things, and since Playtonic wants to include new mechanics in their game, some people might be worried that it won't be great.

Maybe it's the fact that this is the first Playtonic game (and the first developed in the Unity engine), and that might also make some people critical.

I personally is as hyped as ever, but that might be because I'm a total fanboy ;P
Yooka-Laylee HYPE :D

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Piet
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Piet » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:02 pm

I'm still looking forward to the game, but not as much as when the Kickstarter campaign started.

Reasons (FOR ME):
- The Wii U cancellation and the lack of info about it.
- Still no Switch info.
- Capital Cashino gameplay looks pretty bland.
- When compared to BK/BT (which are +/-20 years old) it looks pretty 'non-outstanding'.
Last edited by Piet on Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sas87
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Sas87 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:29 pm

(sry for bad english, iam from germany)
Iam also a fanboy :) but iam worried about the swimming mechanics and the enemy soundeffects when hit.
Hope it will feel good to knock out an enemy in the final game and an alternative option for swimming controls :cry: and six worlds :P also think they should have invested more time in singeplayer than make a multiplayer mode,... But, i think it will be the good game we all hope for !

GeneralWalnut
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby GeneralWalnut » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:03 pm

I have always been thinking of the game in the context of its dev time, team size, and budget (all of which are real small by today's standards) so for me, no. I think probably a lot of people will go in expecting a big hyper polished AAA experience and will leave disappointed though.

Also, I think the critical reception will probably be pretty divisive, as the genre really isn't universally fondly remembered. A lot of people look back with disdain at the N64 and the overabundance of collecathons, and I'd imagine that stigma is still alive an well.

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Rueckkoppler
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Rueckkoppler » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:50 pm

I think my persona excitement just died down because it's been quite a while since the Kickstarter and the recent footage (like the Casino) or the multiplayer were not as exciting as getting the first glance of the almost-finished game in the E3 trailer.

Additionally, there's now probably more waiting time or at least uncertainty about it for Switch owners. And well, some minor stuff I'm yet concerned about (Will the fighting mechanics be more interesting? Will it be weird/annoying that Trowzer/Dr. Puzz have no dwellings like it feels now?).

The game probably has much more in store that we can get excited about while finally playing that they didn't show. I mean, that's what we wanted, right? At least I don't want to get any more spoilers.

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lavamario
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby lavamario » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:03 am

I've always understood that this project wouldn't have the budget that Banjo-Threeie would have had, but I'll admit that I pictured everything being more polished when I saw the first scans in the magazine showing off these high-quality screenshots.

Fast forward to the casino level and I see much more kickstarter-esque features in this project than I had hoped for. I've already gone on about the big lack of polish spotted in things like the missing enemy death physics/animations, or the awkward havoc-like ball puzzles, but that new casino gameplay is really what turned on the cynic in me. I just sort of realized that I needed to expect much less than from the production value. Banjo really pushed the N64 back in its day and to me it still has a gorgeous art style with fantastic textures, so I suppose I expected its revival to break the chain and push out a Unity game that didn't look like so many other sterile, lifeless and bland projects. I feel it didn't completely deliver on that front when I see some of the more blandly-lit areas of the casino and some of its oddly vacant areas. I see a need for embellishment. Add more to the decor. Give the area a bit more life.

That said I love that it seems to have an emphasis on interior areas with little nooks and crannies. That much seemed very positive, and I like some segments that highlight YL's faster moveset compared to BK.

I'm more than ready to have my mind changed when I play the game, resetting my standards back to Banjo-Threeie levels. But as it is now I've brought the hype bar down a bit. I wouldn't mind another year of waiting for them to thoroughly polish everything, but people are already angsty enough as it is. All I can say is I'm really hoping the N64 shader delivers, as I might have to rely on it.

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Exaskryz
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Exaskryz » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:54 am

Woaaaah, it finally came out! :o

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Scrubber
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Scrubber » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:46 am

The hype is being ruined by the very people making the game.

We have seen so much from the game that I'm not actually THAT stoked for it anymore. Music, levels, characters, games etc they are showing way too much and it isn't leaving room for the imagination.

I've just unfollowed them on twitter as they are showing a new character a day until the game releases. Given the fact that they all came from Rare I would have thought and hoped they'd keep things more secret.

Piet
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Piet » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:59 am


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Rueckkoppler
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Rueckkoppler » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:51 am


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DarkTone
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby DarkTone » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:15 pm

I've actually seen just enough. Anymore and I would care less about this. But I'm still positive to this games release.

Pokemaniac Dan
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Pokemaniac Dan » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:05 pm

I think there are several factors contributing to this. First off, there's been a lot of negativity the past couple of months due to the WiiU cancellation. I personally didn't mind, but I know a lot of others did and are still upset about it. When such negativity seeps into an extremely positive and exciting environment, it's cancerous. It brings the whole mood and hype down. I remembered back when PG teased Hivory Towers by having them take over their Twitter account and everyone was speculating and excited to see what would be revealed. There hasn't been much of that excitement lately at all.

That's also partially a result of the reveals. Too much being revealed too quickly. With the Hivory Tower update, it was gradual, built excitement, started out as a tease, etc. Now things are being revealed at a much quicker pace without any tease or build up. Capital Cashino trailer and game play videos are perfect examples.

Which brings me to Capital Cashino. I have to be honest; from my perspective, this was the moment for me that gave me my first sense of trepidation. I am still holding on to positive hope that there is so much more that hasn't been seen specifically in this world that will capture the same charm and excitement in exploring that I've seen in Tribalstack Tropics. I think both worlds seem vastly different in a game play sense. One evokes a feeling of nostalgia (TT) while one evokes a feeling of blandness (CC).

And speaking of nostalgia, my final point will be made in hearkening back to Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie. Most of the appeal of Yooka-Laylee has been built around the nostalgia factor in getting a game in the same realm of BK and BT. I think the more we see of YL and the closer it gets, the more we realize that feeling of playing BK and BT will be lost; it is imprisoned in the past simply because the time's are different, our ages are different, and our viewpoints are different. BK and BT worked in a time of no social media, no teasers, no insight whatsoever. We all went in blind and explored and discovered complete wonderment in real time as we played. That is no longer possible in gaming of today, especially in such a game as YL where the whole charm and excitement is of exploring blindly without knowing what to expect. Now, I have full confidence that there's A LOT of YL that we haven't seen and will be pleased and excited about when we witness it, but I think we've seen enough to realize that nostalgic feeling may be dwindling.

Overall, I am still very much excited for this game (a month and a half to go!) and have full faith that PG has created a wonderful one. I also have that same confidence that BK and BT will still be my favorite games of all time. I'm not sure where YL will fall, but I am still very much ready to delve in and explore these worlds and interact with these characters and enjoy the tunes, puzzles, fun and secrets!

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Rueckkoppler
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Rueckkoppler » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:17 pm

Well said, Dan!

Sas87
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Sas87 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:09 pm

Yes, well written :!:

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lavamario
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby lavamario » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:05 pm


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MazLad
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby MazLad » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:23 pm

I think Dan makes a great point re: gaming of today. We see a lot about a game before it releases, unless we lock ourselves away from it.

I posted a while ago asking if people thought the current 'walkthrough culture' in gaming could negatively affect Yooka-Laylee reviews and reception.
You know how it is, Gamer-A says the game is too short and not challenging, but followed an internet walkthrough for the whole thing. I personally know two gamers that do this and while I understand why they do it, I can't see a feeling of not wanting to miss any content outweighing the benefit ,(imo), of just playing the game and encountering the game mechanics, story etc naturally. - Maybe I'm the odd one? But if so, it's not great news for older style games... :cry:
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Exaskryz
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby Exaskryz » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:27 am

The walkthrough nature. I hope there's no handholding by Playtonic. I know there'll be some - they're not bold enough to make a game like they did in the 90s - but I was able to watch a player on Twitch who had never seen anything of Banjo Kazooie before. In fact, two of them, I think. (The second guy wasn't chatting and had no mic (I love no mic streams) so IDK if it was truly blind, but he totally looked like he didn't know what to do.) And that reminded me of my original playthrough of BK. And I thought that was amazing.

Like trying to spell BANJO KAZOOIE in the Mad Monster Mansion room with the purple ghost that "runs" around the perimeter. The trick is you're supposed to ride a cup that's trapping the Jiggy. It's not very intuitive to jump onto a cup and then be able to ride it (push it, maybe), and up to then Jiggies were immobile - you had to break them free and then pick them up. The streamer didn't know what to do, came close to jumping on the cup but didn't, and eventually timed out in that obstacle.

I want stuff like that, except for the little bit of bad game design where this became your first mobile jiggy in like, what, world 6 or 7? Maybe I'm wrong and it wasn't bad game design, that's beside the point. I'd just like it to be where you have to "get lucky" to figure out how to move forward, but it shouldn't be like ET lucky.
Woaaaah, it finally came out! :o

croissant
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Re: Concerns of quality?

Postby croissant » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:44 pm

I haven't come across any of these kind of views myself, but as you bring the subject to my attention, I can definitely see a potential for mixed perceptions regarding the final game. You can already tell quite a bit from the game's multiple release trailers, and different people seem to respond to different aspects. A recurring statement I've noticed more recently is about the game feeling empty. Many seem to resort to the notion that the worlds are too big with nothing in them, and I do feel a bit concerned about the possibility of being left with the same kind of impression.

Some say the answer is to simply add objects to fill the space. But I feel there are other more subtle nuances to the experience that would require attention. After all, things didn't really look all that different design-wise back in the days of Banjo-Kazooie and Super Mario 64. So what could then be the missing factor? As the thread's title suggests, I feel this is a matter of what defines quality—which then leads us to the question: do we understand what defines the attribute of quality in any man-made creation? I will make a claim and say that it's always about passion, integrity and satisfaction. If you want to create something that is a product of quality, it has to be something that you really do enjoy to do. It has to be something that you do for the satisfaction of it. It has to be something that you do with passion and desire. If either of those two factors are missing in the creative process, where is then the integrity?

Some people say they feel that the game is lacking a sense of polish. It's hard to nail it down to any exact points, because it's really scattered out all over the place. When you are in the process of designing something like a video game, there are a myriad of different factors that together compose what renders the final gameplay experience. It's therefore important to acknowledge that the composition of each little element, be it a 3D model, an instrument in a song, or a piece of code, optimally requires a sufficient level of attention to its detail, until the artisan who is composing that element truly feels satisfied with the result. If the artisan is not feeling passion and sheer enjoyment in the creative process, the result is going to feel stillborn. In particular, any artists working with music, words or paint should be familiar with this. But when the subject is as complex as a video game, it's easier to dismiss this understanding and just fabricate something for the purpose of providing a piece of content to the whole.

If this were to be the case with a significant amount of the many pieces that compose the entirety of the game, those specific elements collectively are probably going to feel like they are sucking life out of you. Most people seem to not notice what those specific elements would be, perhaps because they haven't finetuned their awareness to be observant of these subtle nuances. And so, their general impression is just that "it feels empty". Then there are others who are more easily distracted by other specifics, who will have a different perception of the game, perhaps with a more biased attitude than objective.


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