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Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:02 am
by ShanPen

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:09 am
by Tek
Good article.

It was exciting to read that one little bit of info from this article about how Gavin Price said that the game is about to enter certification. That sounds like they're basically done and just need to get bugs fixed and approval from the various console makers. Since they're having physical releases as well though, I wonder how long it will take for the discs and cartridges to be made and shipped...

A lot of people will probably ignore Playtonics advice/warning that this game and their future games are not intended to be marketed as spiritual successors the way Yooka Laylee was, but I think it's an important thing to keep in mind. There's nothing wrong with noting the similarities between the games (A whole bunch of the same people worked on both this and the classic DKC games), but at the same time, if people go overboard and assume/expect this game to literally be exactly like one of the old DKC games but in a modern coat of paint (spiritual successor?) or they expect it to be exactly what the next official DKC game after Tropical Freeze is hypothetically expected to be, they could be setting themselves up for disappointment. There are going to be some differences between the two even if they also have a lot in common, and that's a good thing. It's important that there be differences between this new game and the previous DKC games. If it was going to be exactly the same as the old DKC games, then Playtonic may as well have tried to get permission from Nintendo to just do a remastering of DKC 1-3. ;)

If they make it function exactly like the old DKC games, people will criticize them for ripping off those games. If they make it function differently from the old DKC games in some ways, people will criticize them for not making the game more like the DKC games. :roll: The same sort of thing happens with a lot of games, but it seems Playtonic gets an unusually high amount of this catch-22 criticism.

I like what I've seen so far and think they've made the right choice to continue making the kind of games they want to make, past influences included, but without trying to market it by leaning on the past games they made that it might be influenced by.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:56 am
by LDK777
I think that's a good policy on their part.

It's really impossible to make sequels to 25 year old games, plus it's also a very limiting philosophy.

If there are good gameplay mechanics in the old games they want to include, great. If there are new mechanics they have thought up, also great.

Just focus on making the games interesting, challenging, and fun and don't worry about anything else.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:05 pm
by Pgcrooner
they wanted to capture that old "rare" magic. Now its time for them to do that while creating some new Playtonic magic of their own.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:36 pm
by Scrubber
It's hard not to compare. The new game looks to be a carbon copy of Tropical Freeze.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:43 pm
by Tek
But if it was a carbon copy it would be identical in its mechanics. Tropical Freeze doesn't let you play the final level from the very start of the game and it doesn't have a Zelda style overworld with puzzles, as mentioned in the article. The overworld in Tropical Freeze is closer in resemblance to the overworlds in the modern Super Mario Brothers games.

The health system also seems to function differently. Kongs in Tropical Freeze apparently have 2 to 5 hearts and can only boost that temporarily by 1 for the duration of a single level using a power-up. In Impossible Lair Yooka will lose Laylee if hit and only have a small amount of time to get her back before she is gone, which will reduce or remove some abilities. Additionally, Playtonic has stated that you can (permanently?) acquire extra hitpoints by freeing Bees. I'm still unclear on whether or not these extra hitpoint Bees are only used in the Impossible Lair itself, or if you can use them in any level. Pagies transform the overworld and the levels themselves can also be transformed into new ones but I forget if that's also done with the Pagies or not. I'm sure there are a number of other differences as well that we'll discover soon enough. :D

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:23 pm
by SenSx
Let me rephrase that interview: don't get your hopes up, the game will not meet your expectations and will be disappointing.

Come one, of course Playtonic does not have Nintendo/Retro Studio's budget, but you don't need big budget to make good gameplay and good level design.

And it's only natural to compare YL to DKC, or other platformer games, there aren't that many on the market in the end...
It can have different mechanics, but at the end of the day, it will still be a platformer game.

Can't say it really reassured me...

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:42 am
by ShanPen
I honestly find it really interesting how a group of people can read the exact same text, yet come up with such different interpretations. It leads to some good discussions.

If I had to sum up that article, my take would be:

“Please judge our game on its own merits, rather than comparing it to other games.
Yes, some of us did work on the Donkey King Country series, so there might be some influence drawn from that, but we’re trying new things with our game that we think will be interesting for the players, so it is unfair for you to dismiss it as “just another DKC game” (and since that’s not what we’re aiming for, if that’s exactly what you expect, you might be disappointed). Please let Playtonic forge its own identity, instead of limiting us to being “New Rare”.”

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:58 am
by Tek
Your summary pretty much nails what I think they're trying to say.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:05 pm
by Gorjo
Makes sense. To expect a spiritual successor would mean thinking less of it if it does things differently, no matter how good it does them. "It's a good game but not a good DKC game" and all that.
I didn't think of DKC when I first saw the trailer actually, it seemed to have a slower pace and a more relaxing tone, but I guess I couldn't resist making comparisons out of hype. I'm glad we are getting a new flavor of 2D platformer.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:41 pm
by SenSx

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:23 pm
by NPChilla
Comparisons are inevitable.

It's up to the product to show its differences.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:50 am
by ShanPen

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:04 am
by ShanPen

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:21 am
by Piet
I understand what they mean + there's the fact that the game includes aspects from BK, DKC & TLoZ.
Of course DKC seems to be the biggest inspiration, but YLatIL is more than just a 'spiritual successor' of DKC.

Re: Playtonic Don't Want Impossible Lair Compared to DKC

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:16 pm
by SenSx