The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

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TrenteR
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The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby TrenteR » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:46 am

Hello everyone,
today I want to talk about the difficulty curve in the Banjo games.

Banjo-Kazooie:
To complete this game you need at least 810 Notes and 92 Jiggies. (Without Cheats or glitches)
But you have to collect nearly all Notes in one try and if we looking to Click Clock Wood and Rusty Bucket Bay, that becomes a challenge.
If we assume you are not a good player the Notes are the bigger issue than the Jiggies.

Now I compare this to speedrunning this game.(100%) In speedrunning you do very risky things, but never want to die. The most runs that come this far are mostly screwed up in Click Clock Wood or we call it sometimes click choke wood. Not because we have so many risky strats in Click Clock Wood, but because this level plays on a tree and if you miss one jump, the heart stops. From a speedrunner perspective you don't want to mess anything up, but in Click Clock Wood, if you mess something up you probably gonna throw the whole run, because you die.

This game is difficult even after years of playing this game and this makes a lot fun. But when I was young, the hardest levels for me are Rusty Bucket bay and Click Clock Wood. Because of the Note Count. To get the 882 Notes to open all NoteDoors was very frustrating.

Banjo-Tooie:

This game in my opinion is way easier and way bigger than Banjo-Kazooie. Okay the backtracking was the downer in my opinion but not quite as difficult as the levels in BK.
First of all, your Note Count is global and you don't have to recollect the Notes. (Makes the game a lot easier)
The Jiggy's are harder to get, you have to think more about certain things and many minigames. (To get all 100 Jiggies it takes more time)
Some minigames are difficult but the fun perspective is high.


Result:


If we draw a curve for both games, you will see that BK don't need more player skill in the end of the game, than BT. But you have easier and longer level in BT than in BK to learn all these things. On the other Hand, BT is just insanly hard to understand in the beginning if you havn't played BK before. You get all moves right from the beginning and new players don't know how to use any of them.


This is only an analyzed by me, so don't take it too seriously. I'm more of a BK fan and a BK-runner and so I'm finding BK more attractive. But compared to each other went BT in my opinion simply overboard. ;)

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polomi
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby polomi » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:08 am

It's been too long since I played the Banjo games so I don't remember the difficulty curve accurately. Although I finished them at 100%, I really don't think I can brag about it, it wasn't "hard" hard. 100% should be hard as far as I am concerned. I do remember that I messed up a few times trying to get the notes in some levels in BK, but it wasn't too big of a deal.

I like difficulty curves that are smooth all the way up to the end, and then there is a sudden jump that makes things much much harder. By that I mean that it should be fairly easy to beat the game, but there should be optional challenges at the end for those who want more, and it should be hard. Getting the shiny gold medals in DKCR, getting A+ in Hotline Miami, the retro challenges in Bit Trip Runner, that kind of stuff. I love that.

The Banjo games lacked any kind of such challenges. Except for that, I found the difficulty curves to be appropriate in both games. Most people should be able to at least beat them fairly easily.

I can't comment on speedrunning since I didn't do that in any of the Banjo games.

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weebbby
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby weebbby » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:15 pm

Click Clock Wood was never much of a challenge for me. I mean the falling, for a speed run, yeah, it can happen. The world was so awesome though.
The hardest part for me was Rusty Bucket Bay's interior.

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Taylor
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby Taylor » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:24 pm

Anybody willing to draw up a graph must be correct, so I'll just agree with this. Personally I find Tooie harder though, but mostly because I know Banjo-Kazooie inside out and I'm not a speed-runner (I don't have a fear of falling/dying).
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GrayMagicΓ
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:46 pm

DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

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TrenteR
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby TrenteR » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:26 pm


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GrayMagicΓ
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:48 pm

DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

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Phyreburnz
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby Phyreburnz » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:30 am

B-K was definitely easier, I think because the notes all reset when you die. I think that was the biggest problem... that and the stupid oil taking twice the oxygen away when swimming in Rusty Bucket Bay.

In B-T, the hardest part for me was that stupid last race with Canary Mary in Cloud Cuckooland. I recently replayed B-T a month or so ago and that last race is the last thing I have to do to totally complete the game. I *HATE* that race.

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GrayMagicΓ
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby GrayMagicΓ » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:55 am

DLC? UGANDA WILL NOT HAVE THIS SICKNESS!

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Phyreburnz
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby Phyreburnz » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:06 am

I don't even own a 360. :P 64 all the way!

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TrenteR
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby TrenteR » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:23 am


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Phyreburnz
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby Phyreburnz » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:17 am

I have beaten it before, it was just that I got really frustrated on my last playthrough. You actually want to stay just behind her the whole race except for the very end. If you slowly tap the button to stay just behind her, you can take it easy for like 90% of the race. It's just that last part where you have to zoom ahead of her right as you're going down the mountain to end the race. That's the part that got me. I just got frustrated and walked away... for a few months :P ... I'll get back to it soon, I'm sure. She has rubber band mechanics so if you zoom ahead of her too quickly, she blows the F past you.

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Stopnswop7
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby Stopnswop7 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:02 pm

The game was never to difficult to me, the only two problems I have anymore are falling in Rusty Bucket Bays engine room and missing notes in Click Clock Wood. It did however take me forever to beat the game the first time I ever played though, cause I lost my first copy when I was like 6 or 7, and didn't find another copy of the game till I was 11... Now iv got the game down to a point where I can beat it without dying at all, getting everything in the game. The second one, however... Boy, I have a LOT of screw ups in that game, but that might be because of the abundance of high areas and insta-death pits...

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MamaLuigi
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby MamaLuigi » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:17 pm

The only level I found challenging was Rusty Bucket Bay, and that was only because of the jiggy where you have to swim into the propellers and whatnot. The rest of the game was a breeze, but a fun one. (I had a lot of trouble on Gruntilda because I kept missing her when I was flying and falling to my death)
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Kikirini
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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby Kikirini » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:55 pm

I always thought BK was easier. I can 100% that game in my sleep, and my friends pretty much refer to me as the living walkthrough for it.
Tooie on the other hand? Those FPS sections killed me. And Cloud Cuckooland Canary Mary? I could never beat it.
(Now these devs have had over a decade to mull over ideas...I fear for the mini games we'll get in Project Ukulele.)

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Re: The difficulty of the Banjo-series (exclude N&B)

Postby GildasMagnus » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:37 pm

Kazooie was (I find) easier, but I do feel they cheapened the Notes too much in Tooie. I think a good balance is in order - perhaps starting easyish on both Pagies and note-equivalents and ending quite difficult in later levels, or alternatively having the unlockable parts of the levels get progressively harder so the 'main game' is fine but 100% completion is quite tricky.
Came to save my sister, stayed for the quiz show.


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