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DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:17 pm
by Nanirourou

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:49 pm
by Xellos
Okay, do you want us to discuss this mini-blog since we're in a dry spell now with the lack of Yooka-Laylee news? Because the general consensus here is that Banjo-Tooie surpass Banjo-Kazooie in almost every way (few things like the music are debatable). So I don't see the meaning of posting that thread on this forum.

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:16 pm
by Nanirourou
Description of this subforum: "Go on, reminisce over the Playtonic team's past wares. We demand it."

Just sharing a discussion on Tooie I found interesting. I don't see any reason for you to say it doesn't belong. Chill out.

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:42 pm
by Scrubber
It certainly is a masterpiece. Can't wait to play it again on Rare replay.

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:22 pm
by Xellos

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:16 pm
by Nanirourou

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:03 pm
by Rueckkoppler
This post contains all the reasons why I love Tooie so much. Hopefully a lot of people see this & appreciate it!

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:50 pm
by Latikos
This discussion is pretty interesting. Tooie is also my favorite entry in the Banjo-Kazooie series and it's always good to see why people prefer one or the other. As for the article in itself, there are a lot of elements that never even came to my mind to this day, but when reading, I was like "Oh yeah, that's true... I never realized that."

Thanks for sharing this discussion =)

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:49 pm
by GrayMagicΓ
It was an interesting read, and I do concede that Tooie had more unique ideas in it than BK, but I still find BK more enjoyable and better designed than its sequel. The backtracking point is also highly subjective, and while I can understand the appeal of it, I myself am slightly irked by it, and can easily see why some people are flat out frustrated by the time required to go back.

One thing that does annoy me about the backtracking conversations, though, is that most people I hear from on both sides of the argument group all instances of BT's backtracking together and judge them as a whole. I don't expect everyone to be able to recite every Jiggy location before being able to participate in a conversation on the game, but even fans that claim to have beaten the game dozens of times often lump all instances of backtracking together. I see backtracking as being able to be broken down into three subcategories.

1) "The Good". The defenders of backtracking often bring these up- it's clear that you'll have to backtrack when you first encounter the puzzle, and when you do, there's a direct path from the later level back to the earlier level. Once you're done backtracking, you can take the exact same path back to the later level. These are, unfortunately, very rare, but one example is the kickball tournament in Hailfire Peaks- you can quickly take the shortcut to Mayhem Temple, transform, and head back, no need to manually enter or exit any levels. The only players that find an issue with this are ones that like doing one level per session, as they're unable to make sure they're actually done with a level- a valid complaint, but not a very common one. Most people against backtracking cite examples of...

2) "The Bad". Like any actual conversation about the quality of a game beyond a simple buyer's guide, this point is subjective. Myself and most others in the "no backtracking" camp dislike this type of backtracking, but it definitely has its fans. What I put in this group is unlocking new content in old worlds, but having to manually return to the old worlds. Traveling back with no shortcut just pads out the time to complete the game, and if the barrier was never there, the level would have functioned just fine with direct access to the part of the level that's blocked off.

I'd qualify BK's sole example of backtracking, the second Bogey race, as this. In BT itself, having to return to TDL and WW after learning claw clamber boots from GI to give the hamburger to the caveman qualifies as this. If all you had to do was open the gate and walk through (or if you learned how to use the boots earlier in the game) I'd consider it a case of good backtracking, but unfortunately, you can't deliver the hamburger until long after connecting the two levels. At least there's a reason to return to TDL after getting the burger, and at least it makes use of an otherwise almost useless area (one of Bogey's kids has a *chance* of spawning there), otherwise I'd consider it a case of...

3) "The Ugly". Luckily, BT doesn't have too many examples of this, but the few that it does are hard to defend. The defenders of backtracking claim that being able to access a new part of an old level adds to the worldbuilding and can be a nice surprise- again, *if* there's a new part of an old level. The thing is, this isn't always true. In some rare cases, BT has you do something in a new level to just spawn a Jiggy in an old level. Imagine if in BK beating Boss Boom Box would spawn a Jiggy back at the main hub of BGS. It wouldn't add to the gameplay or reveal any new area, you'd just have to go backwards to collect it, and it would be a chore. Examples that immediately come to mind are returning to Dippy in TDL after giving them water for a Cheato page and crossing the Stomping Plains (also in TDL) as Banjo after learning the Snooze Pack from GI.

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:57 am
by Shawnsim
Damnit stop posting quality content in a nearly dead forum.
You and the lady too.

Re: DK Vine: "Banjo-Tooie is a goddamned masterpiece"

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:44 pm
by Salty Joe
Enjoyed reading it but didn't agree with any sentiments that banjo tooie is about how dark and depressing the world really is. Whilst it's darker than banjo kazooie, despite everything good wins in the end, Klungo leaves the evil side, the deaths of George and Mildred although horrible turned out good in the long run as they made those little pigs in jolly Rogers lagoon happy, etc. and it's very funny and silly. It may be about growing up and getting older to the reality of life, but that reality is often fun and joyful, not just miserable as some people in that thread seemed to believe.