Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

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Savage Rodent
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Savage Rodent » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:28 pm

I don't think the backlash would have been as great if they didn't say this:

"Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy."

They say this, but then decide to discriminate Jon because of his views. This is the hypocrisy that gets under my skin. Apparently people are fine with "do as I say, not as I do."
Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.


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DiverseOpinions
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:31 pm

I have made an account to leave my opinion on your move to get involved in politics PlayTonic. You really messed up with your PR staff, and you really shouldn't have removed content as a result of differing opinions when you claim to support EVERY type of diversity. I'm sorry that you've gone ahead and made your motto an absolute, but that's on you. So let's say that JonTron is somehow a ""racist"" for what he said on a stream, that had nothing to do with your game mind you, and stack up how much that affects the "comfortable" environment you're trying to set with your game if you had not removed his voice role.

"Man this game is great, oh hey a new NPC!"

Random garble noises voiced by Jontron.

"Oh hey that sounds like funny internet guy."

OR

"Hah, what a weird voice."

Notice how I didn't include your perceived notion that residents from NeoGaff backed your game, because they didn't. Your core audience are people that just want the game, no politics involved whatsoever. Do you want to know why your decision WILL affect the player's perspective of the game? Now you've created unnecessary bitterness that wouldn't have been present if you had either left Jon's voice in the game or at the least refunded all the "biggots" your terrible PR team has censored, mocked and insulted on twitter, as well as refused any explanation on the matter other than, "Thanks for funding the game, we don't care." I'm utterly disgusted to see the remnants of the old RARE subject themselves to caving under such a tiny bit of pressure when these are the same people that worked on CONKER'S BAD FUR DAY!

The advancement of Social Media is going to be the end to good game development, and it's all thanks to weak companies like you Platonic who can't just release a statement saying that JonTron's opinions do not represent you as a company, or you could've done what a good company does...

IGNORE CONTROVERSY!

My perspective of you as a company is clear, and if I do purchase the game it will be a used copy. Sad to see you lose so many sales after you poured your hard work and effort in over some controversy and politics you could've easily ignored.


P.S. Before someone tells me, yes I'm aware that Playtonic is within their right to remove JonTron's voice from the game. Just like I'm within my right as a customer to not support shady business practices. Stop pointing out the obvious and take a minute to actually understand that not every single person who has a differing opinion is evil or racist. It's extremely hypocritical when everyone is aware that they're sharing OPINIONS. I dare you to try and argue mine.

https://youtu.be/sRNDnR9Za4M
Last edited by DiverseOpinions on Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Gorjo
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Gorjo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:34 pm


O O O O H H
B A N A N A

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Exaskryz » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:35 pm

I just hate seeing this thread keep getting bumped. I'm interested in productive discussions.

But since this thread is full of repeated opinions - if they're not going to have JonTron, I hope they'll go back on their deal with Yadda Clob Gims to have Shoved Knight in the game.
Woaaaah, it finally came out! :o

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby o524157 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:43 pm

I was hearing some unrelated buzz about Yooka-Laylee this morning and decided to check out the site to see how development was going, and I was getting really excited by hearing the release date was very near and watching the Glitterglaze Glacier trailer. Only moments later did I come across this controversy, and I have to say that I am very disappointed by the state of things.

I was one of the backers of Mighty Number Nine. I saw the fallout of their choice in community manager first-hand. It was a horrible experience that soured my trust in backing Kickstarter projects in the future. This is why, despite loving my time with Donkey Kong 64 and Banjo-Tooie as a child, I could not allow myself to get behind Yooka-Laylee's Kickstarter. Everyone knows the disaster that MN9 became, but the warning flag came early in its development. By no means do I suggest that Yooka-Laylee ever looked as unpolished as MN9 did or that Playtonic would be a less qualified team to make Banjo-Kazooie's spiritual successor. Until these recent days, there had been no warning signs and everything looked on the up-and-up. Now, Playtonic has chosen to make the misstep that I aimed to avoid by not backing their project.

You, Playtonic, could have remained apolitical. I don't believe that reasonable people would have thought anything of JonTron's recent political comments being representative of your studio, especially when it's likely that his contribution to the game was made long before those comments. For those that did think so, you could have ignored them, or you could have explained that his comments do not represent the developer and left it at that. Instead, you chose to kowtow further, removing his contribution to the game while signaling your own contrary values. There could have been no reason to look at any part of the game or your staff politically, but you have now called a spotlight upon everything surrounding your studio. Dialogue and characters in the game will be examined for political meaning. Developers' Twitter accounts will be searched. Sales will rise and fall depending on where you stand.

The tragic thing is that you can't go back. You can't undo this mess. You can apologize to JonTron and to the fans, and you can keep or reinstate his voice role in the game, but you can't do it without still being political. You no longer get to have the position of neutrality you once maintained. Any trust you might have held within your backers or with people like me who were waiting cautiously and patiently to avoid supporting studios who make these kinds of moves is unrecoverable. Even if you apologize, such people will force you to be on your toes, watching your every move, ready to call you out the next moment you step out of the political bounds you've stepped into. It won't be unlike the pressure you feel now from the people whose side you've taken. So long as your studio stands, you'll never be able to get rid of this pressure now.

Though the trailer I watched this morning renewed my interest in buying the game, I won't be doing so now. Some people joke about pirating it, but I won't be doing that either. Even if you put JonTron's voice back in, I don't think I'll make the purchase. I won't truly be able to enjoy myself when I'm looking around for undertones of political commentary in the game, and I do expect them to exist (though I could have remained blind to them if you had done nothing like this to bring them to my attention). Instead, I will continue to look back fondly on my time with DK64 and Banjo-Tooie - games which remain apolitical, old, and wonderful.

To Grant Kirkhope, I feel deeply sorry. The music playing during the Glitterglaze Glacier trailer reminded me of Fungi Forest at night and the Crystal Caverns from DK64. I was so looking forward to exploring these new worlds with the stylings of you and your collaborators David Wise and Steve Burke. I regret giving this title a pass, but I can tell you are still doing some incredible work and am looking forward to seeing you in action on another project soon.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby ShyGuyXXL » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:14 pm


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DiverseOpinions
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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:26 pm

Last edited by DiverseOpinions on Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Rueckkoppler » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:28 pm

I'm so glad that a major part of the audience won't care for this debate. A quality game remains a quality game. While I get that JonTron tried to make a point (with the possibility that he didn't mean everything he said exactly that way), it's very easy to misunderstand him and therefore either despise him as a person or take him by his words and adjust your perspective accordingly... which is also really, really bad.

It doesn't matter if Trump is racist or not, his words create a dynamic among the US citizen that encourages disrespectful behaviour and racial thinking. And THAT'S what most people either don't get or (which is even worse) embrace with open arms. Do you really have to be a European (or more specifically in my case) German citizen to be aware of both your history and the current development to understand that this is worrying? And no, I'm not claiming that he's becoming the next Hitler (and I do indeed see some of his "goals" important and necessary, like keeping the country safe), but he's certainly dividing the country more and more by creating a dynamic that oppresses certain groups of people and developing an own narrative with the use of invented keywords that he repeats over and over like some propagandist. His attitude and the execution of his politics is f*cking bottom and people have every right to hold against this.

As for Jon, I just think that he doesn't see the whole picture and therefore shouldn't be blamed too much (calling him a nazi is overblowing it, just as I said above), but I fully understand (for the reasons above) why Playtonic made the bold move to cut him from the game. Freedom of speech still exists, anti-PC's and counter-sjw can relax (but will be irreparably offended anyway, so screw it). Additionally, if you're an artist, you're allowed to have full control of your art and make decisions about it as harshly as you want. That has nothing to do with censorship or shutting down opinions, a game is no goddamn political platform, we've got other platforms for these purposes. So stop twisting words and instances like saying that they got political. You guys only say that because you're great fans of JonTron (and I am as well - I love his videos) and really really liked the idea of having him in that game as "Mr. Banjo-Kazooie" (just like me). But as always, try to see every perspective and don't become a silly internet warrior yourselves, there is NEVER only one side of the medal. Deal with it.
Last edited by Rueckkoppler on Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:33 pm




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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Punksthetic » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:34 pm


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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby GeneralWalnut » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:46 pm


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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:51 pm




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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Savage Rodent » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:52 pm

Yooka-Laylee should be its own game with its own feeling. It shouldn't try to be like Banjo-Kazooie, it shouldn't try to be like Donkey Kong, it should be like Yooka-Laylee.


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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Yoshi » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:59 pm

What is political about the game now? I mean, it is obviously poo-poo that people make such a fuss over such a minor role that Jafri played in Yooka-Laylee, but no matter if he is included or not, this is certainly not a political role in the game. I see no reason why Yooka-Laylee should have a political undertone just because one voice gets patched out. I'm quite sure Playtonic never intended a racist undertone, so inherently to the game, I cannot see any political undertone arising from that.

Moreover, if you are keen on hearing Jafari for whatever reason, as far as I understand this, you can still do so by just buying the physical version of the game. I cannot see the removal of the voice as a political undertone for the game, but if there is one to it, positioning themselves against racism is certainly not the worst political stance Playtonic could take.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby zeo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:02 pm

As someone that backed this project from the very beginning this was a huge let down. I've been excited for this game since mid 2015 and backed it through Pay-Pal.

This project and Playtonic as a company was funded by BK and Rare fans, we should have been polled or asked about this at the very least. I know the xyz amount of pounds I have given you doesn't make me a stockholder but the actions of some of Playtonics employees goes beyond anything even remotely reasonable.

I do not feel comfortable having my name in the credits, nor do I feel comfortable giving money to a company that behaves in this way. It should be easier to get a refund through paypal, no?

If nothing else could you please give backers the choice to opt-out of the credits

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby GeneralWalnut » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:05 pm


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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:08 pm




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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby Pgcrooner » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:08 pm

Here's my concerns over this whole thing. This'll be a long one strap in...

From what I have seen while looking into this, they seemed at the very least to be responding to concerns brought up by a group of people in NeoGAF and a gaming journalist who took issue with Jontron's statements.

I don't care about any of the personal politics of any of the individual members of playtonic as they do not and should not reflect the views of playtonic games.

Companies are neither moral or immoral they should be amoral. Some people think Jontron is a racist for his views on that live stream, that's fair. Some people think other people are misrepresenting him and that he is not a racist, that is also fair and is highly subjective based on the individual.

Jontron's views (whether or not you side with him) never represented playtonic as a company and they could have simply let well enough alone. Or when asked on twitter or in any announcements simply said "Jon Jafari is not employed by Playtonic games and his views do not represent that of playtonic games" and stayed quiet on the matter after the fact while keeping or removing his part. What they did was respond to pressure by telling everyone his part will be removed in a patch and that they support diversity of all kinds (except ideological apparently)and stated they wanted to make everyone comfortable including fans and backers who's love and support made this happen.

Go to the kickstarter comment section and you will see that unfortunately that isn't the case anymore. Many fans are put off by what is seemingly a political statement that wasn't needed. That by taking this stand they have politicized their game which more and more gamers are getting tired of seeing. They didn't NEED to say anything as from what the backlash seems to show, is that the fans weren't the ones asking for this change.

For me this is unfortunate, but it wont change the support and anticipation I feel for this title. But it will make me a little worried about future titles.

Playtonic caved to pressure from groups in NeoGAF and journalists this time in a small way. but whats to stop those same groups exerting pressure to influence and shape how future games are made? What if these groups use their own politics to criticize playtonic to change a character's designs, genders, belief structures, etc?

Playtonic gave them what the wanted the first time and they know exerting pressure works, whats stopping them from doing it again?

Personally, I think this update should be strictly optional and future DLC and updates not include the code to remove the voice for those who want it in. I also think that from this moment on they speak to their fans, but not listen to political pressure after this title, it's too late for Yooka-Laylee in this regard. But they could try to stay as apolitical as possible. Either way after all of this craziness they need to make a further statement or this subject will chase them every time they want to update or announce something about this title.

I think that's all I'll say on this matter.

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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby DiverseOpinions » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:12 pm




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Re: Jon Jafari (JonTron) and his role in Yooka-Laylee

Postby GeneralWalnut » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:29 pm

Last edited by GeneralWalnut on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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